[Gary]

There seems to be a bit of interest in this new loco from Hornby with all its variations. It might be worthwhile havings its own topic as there have been some interesting points raised in the Hornby 2006 news story.

I'm going to read up my Pat Hammond The Rovex Story vol 3 later as spongebob asked a few interesting questions about the original Hornby King Arthur loco produced 30 years ago and he has aroused my curiousity.

And I will post a few images tomorrow of one that I have so that you can all have a go at advising Hornby how they can improve the old model!

I am sure this challenge will be very simple and a bit of fun at the same time!

You never know. Your input might help Hornby create the perfect model!

Happy modelling
Gary

 

[spongebob]

I did wonder if with the king Arthur they converted the chassis for other use but can't find any record of this being the case. I find it bizarre to produce it in one form for 3 years only and actually wonder if it may have been a cost decision possibly due to the financial state of the company maybe as the Ivatt 2-6-0 also had a very short life around this time.

 

[Gary]

According to Pat Hammond in his book The Rovex Story Volume 3 1972-1996 Hornby made about 32000 of the original model. It was the last of the models that Hornby produced to the old Triang type standard and in 1976 Hornby decided to improve the overall quality of their models and sadly "Sir Dinadan" met his maker two years later as the old moulds fell by the wayside and it was considered too expensive to upgrade the King Arthur mould. Hornby considered doing a black BR version but it never happened. Pat has a picture of this BR prototype model in his book and it is now in the hands of a collector. Pat lists plenty of things not right with the old model and even says that it would be a good model to reintroduce!

Apparently most of the class had the 4 axle SR bogie tender so Hornby may have to consider modelling this version as well as the 3 axle tender. They could always approach Bachmann of course!

So without referring to Pat Hammond's book can you spot what is wrong with the old model and have you any advice to give Hornby in connection with the new?

I did get the angle wrong in the first picture and it does make the smoke deflectors look rather bigger than they are in the prototype picture however there is still plenty to think about with one very obvious alteration required.

The official Hornby picture:-

The 1976 model:-

Happy modelling
Gary

 

[nnich]

Thanks for adding this thread Gary. As you'll have gathered from my responses on the Hornby 2006 topic the KA class are one of my all time favourites, as I'm old enough to remember them still hauling expresses on the Bournemouth to Waterloo line. It was only really the advent of rebuilt Bulleid Pacifics and a quite large allocation of BR Standard class 5 4-6-0's that finally displaced them.

Let me add again, that in comparing the Hornby official photo (which I find odd for the reasons given before in the Hornby 2006 thread), you are comparing an original N15 class designed by Urie (the photo of 736), with a later King Arthur class designed by Maunsell. (Hornby "Sir Dinadan" with sort-of correct for a period 6 wheel tender).

It is my understanding from one of the sites with information (MREMag?) that Hornby plan to tool all three possible tender types - the 8 wheel outside bearing bogie tender which should be fitted to No 736, and "Sir Gawain", and the 6 wheel Ashford designed tender for "Sir Harry le Fise Lake" The third tender type is the Drummond "watercart" 8 wheel inside bearing bogie tender which we may see on 30453 "King Arthur" - although this model is described as "BR Late" which would imply that this version too should feature the maunsell version as the tenders were swapped around 1957. King Arthur gained a newer tender to replace its old Drummond one, but lost its chance at preservation as it was now non-original. (a historical note - numbers 30448 to 30457 were nominally rebuilds of Drummond 4-6-0's and retained their original tenders and Drummond cab style)

It seems that officialdom always distinguished between the N15's and the true King Arthurs, although to make matters worse, all the locos were designated with both apellations. The reason was that apparently shedmasters would never roster a Urie engine if a Maunsell one was available (with the possible exception of No 755 "The Red Knight" - but that's another story)

I have a 00 guage King Arthur built by 00 Works - number 30770 "Sir Prianius" It's a nice model in its own right - built on a Bachmann split frame chassis. However I'm guessing its headed for the withdrawal line behind the shed once the new models come out

All the best from New Jersey
Norm

 

[Don]

Thanks, Gary, for posting those excellent and nostalgic pictures of Sir Dinadan.

I bought one (of the 32,000 - that's a number worth pondering over!) new as late as 1978. I painted it Brunswick green and spent days doing all that intricate BR lining. I thought it was so cool. I sold it on, I remember, only because it didn't have handrails - forget all the other faults we would find in it nowadays! Remember the time when a loco was considered "super-detailed" if it had separate handrails? How far Hornby has come since then. I'm confident the new Hornby King Arthur will bear as little resemblance to Sir Dinadan as Sir D did to the prototype!

One reason Sir D had such a short production life may have been because there was so little for the Southern modeller to use it with in those days. The GWR was the region of choice because it already had a model infrastructure, so the manufacturers produced more for the GW and so it went on. How different it is now, when manufacturers go out of their way to find gaps to fill. Nevertheless, even with the 2006 offerings the Southern will still be under-represented.

Thanks to nnich for his posting. There is a good picture of "King Arthur" with late crest in John Scott-Morgan's "Maunsell Locomotives", and it has its new bogie tender as he describes - something I'm sure Hornby will already have noticed. I would still like to see a picture of a single-chimney SR "Excalibur", though, if anyone has come across one, to verify Hornby's strange photograph. Incidentally there is a photo of the nameplates of "Sir Harry LE Fiselake" in Burridge's "Nameplates of the Big Four", to settle the point raised on another forum.

 

[spongebob]

I assume the photo's of the hornby one are the gloss finish one. It almost looks like a tiplate loco. Must be why the matt one is worth a bit more in the Ramsay's guide. I've seen a couple at swapmeets and likewise the M7 and they still command high prices despite their age and lack of fine detail. I dare say they'd fetch even more if dealers realise they are a "limited edition"!

 

[Thomas]

I hope Hornby can be persuaded to add a green late crest weathered one to the announced range of King Arthurs.

Thomas

 

[Don]

Interesting that Hornby has now changed all the new rebuilt West Country and Battle of Britain locos on its website to "late", as expected, but has removed the individual names of the King Arthurs. I wonder if there is a KA re-think going on, in the light of the discussions here and elsewhere about tender changes and cabs?

 

[nnich]

If you click on the "more details" button they still have the individual loco names (unchanged)

Does anyone else agree with my original statement that the King Arthur photo must be wrong? I think it may be a picture of (Maunsell) loco number 786, with the number doctored in the photo. Its all wrong for a Urie version - the cab is wrong and the safety valves make it appear that this is a Maunsell boiler - although that could be explained by a boiler swap. I can't figure out why Hornby would knowingly do this however - MREMag reported they were tooling up three tender types, so a couple of cab and boiler fitting variations should be easy. Thats another thing - with the announced models they could get away with two tender types since a BR late "King Arthur" would have the Maunsell 8 wheeler

Puzzled

 

[JohnR]

Bear in mind that by tooling up for the Drummond watercart tender for the King Arthur, it makes it cheaper when they do the T9.... or is that wishful thinking?

 

[nnich]

" Bear in mind that by tooling up for the Drummond watercart tender for the King Arthur, it makes it cheaper when they do the T9.... or is that wishful thinking?"

I hope its not JohnR

Would be ironic if Bachmann produced one though

Not quite sure why Hornby need the watercart tender for the announced range, as only "King Arthur" himself, or others from that series could correctly use it, and then only as "BR Early" However Pat Hammond did say they're tooling three tender types. Maybe they've found a photo of 30453 with watercart tender and late emblem.

Norm

 

[Makemineadouble]

I could almost become a Southern Modeller with all these new models that will become available. Well I am I'm going Union Pacfic

(this week)

 

[JohnR]

QUOTE (nnich @ 10 Jan 2006, 22:49)Not quite sure why Hornby need the watercart tender for the announced range, as only "King Arthur" himself, or others from that series could correctly use it, and then only as "BR Early" However Pat Hammond did say they're tooling three tender types. Maybe they've found a photo of 30453 with watercart tender and late emblem.

Norm
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think that King Arthur only gained its Urie tender in 1959, so it could have a late emblem and a Drummond tender.

 

[nnich]

John

I looked up this info in my "bible" the Don Bradley "Locomotives of the LSWR" series. According to that volume, King Arthur got its Maunsell tender in April 1957 (transferred from Urie 'Arthur number 30742). The picture in the book is taken in September 1958 and shows it (nice and clean) with late emblem and, of course, Maunsell tender.

If Hornby are indeed tooling a watercart version Drummond tender for it, I think there is a very limited time period that it could have carried a late emblem on this tender......

Happy modelling
Norm

 

[60134]

Forget about the T9, how about a "Paddlebox" to go with the water-cart tender!

60134

 

[Sacred]

I really do love these models, why do they not bring these out as often as some of the others companies nowerdays