[Mike Button]

Help! I recently picked up a Hornby Patriot (circa 1980's) off e-bay with the intention of converting it to DCC. I was expecting it to be the same tender drive as in the 2P and 4F which I've already converted. Of course it's different, and I'm a stuck as how to continue. I've checked Bromsgrove models site, there are pictures on there for converting the Patriot, but I'm finding them hard to follow. Is there anyone out there who's done one of these, and if so can you pass on some advice.
Thanks in anticipation
Mike

 

[Makemineadouble]

Mike I have sound in my Patriot. With a bit of work the Bachmann split frame chassis will fit in the body leaving all that lovely tender space for a sound decoder.
with this conversion you have a much more controllable drive unit. Of course this will leave you with the problem of fitting a decoder in the Scot chassis. This conversion also involves removing the ringfield motor and fitting new tender wheels with pick-up's so it's not for the novice. Of course you could use a bachmann tender.

Your Ringfield DCC conversion.
In principle this is almost the same as the 2P/4F. You have pick-ups on the loco and this replayed via the Hornby plug to the tender. You also have pick-ups on the tender both sides. You have to joint these wires via a junction to the red/black decoder wires. The grey orange go to the terminals. Discard the Hornby confetti between the terminals. I always fit a an insulating washer between the self tapping screw holding the left hand terminal in place (you can fabricate this from plasti-card if you don't have one). You will note the left hand self tapper is slightly longer than the right this is because in the older models power was transfered for one pole from the tender wheels via the rotor housing and the self tapping screw to the terminal. Use shrink tube for sealing your joints. This is still quite a simple installation if you take your time to think it through and see where each wire comes from. Please use a continuity tester to make sure you have all the right wires jointed together.

 

[BromsMods]

Hello Mike

Just to clarify, instructions for installing a decoder into the non-DCC ready version of the loco are not on our site, it is just a link and we have no control over the quality of the instructions as presented. We just felt that it was a link that could provide some modellers with the help they required to get the job done.

The instructions for the tender install DCC ready version are ours.

Regards

John R
Bromsgrove Models

 

[Ozzie21]

You would probably be better off converting over to a Comet chassis and a tender kit rather than persevering with the Hornby chassis and the Ringfield drive unit.

Ozzie21

QUOTE (Mike Button @ 19 May 2007, 05:59) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Help! I recently picked up a Hornby Patriot (circa 1980's) off e-bay with the intention of converting it to DCC. I was expecting it to be the same tender drive as in the 2P and 4F which I've already converted. Of course it's different, and I'm a stuck as how to continue. I've checked Bromsgrove models site, there are pictures on there for converting the Patriot, but I'm finding them hard to follow. Is there anyone out there who's done one of these, and if so can you pass on some advice.
Thanks in anticipation
Mike

 

[Mike Button]

Thanks for the advice mmad, I'm still confused though, I have one red wire coming from the loco pick-ups via the connection for the tender connection, does this pick up from both the left and right wheels? If I joint this with the red wire to the decoder am I not going to cause a short. Likewise with the black wire which seems to get it's pick up from the tender chassis rather than one side of the pick ups? I'm still a novice with installing decoders and like things simple! I thought I needed the red wire to pick up from one track via the wheels, and the black from the other track, again via the wheels and that both needed to be kept seperate.
Apoloies to Bromsgrove models, the links provided by that sight have been very useful for other conversions I have done, I meant no critiscism of Bromsgrove and recommend their sight and the links provided to anyone considering DCC conversion.
Unfortunatly converting the chassis to another maker is not an option, I am modelling on a budget and having bought the Patriot, which I consider to be a great looking model, I feel I must stick with it and if I can't convert it then it will have to go, which will be a shame because I like it so much.
I was hoping that Hornby would be making an LMS version with DCC on board, but sadly they are only doing rebuilt Patriots, and I can't get excited by the Royal Scot they've just bought out. My LMS themed lyout already has ore black loco's than crimson lake. The Bachmann Jubille "Australia" is a possibility though, if I'm patient!
Thanks again Mike

 

[Makemineadouble]

I agree the Hornby Patriot captures the spirit of the loco. It's a nice model.
I missed this bit sorry
QUOTE Help! I recently picked up a Hornby Patriot (circa 1980's) off e-bay with the intention of converting it to DCC

Your answer lies in the age of your model. Early versions collected current from the loco for one pole, and from the tender for the other. Later models will collect current from both sides from the loco and the tender, a continuity meter will help you sort this out Mike. If it's the early model then don't forget to fit an insulating washer as I described. It is vital that the self tapping screw does'nt bottom in the Rotor body as this will lead to a direct short and you will blow your decoder. From your description it sounds like you have an early model therefore connect the red wire from the decoder to the incoming red wire from the loco, and the corresponding black wire to the decoders black wire. If you can't afford a continuity meter for 6 or 7 quid use a lead to check which wires are which (before you connect you decoder, your DCC controller will give you a buzzing sound when you short, it's a very useful guide. Hornby didn't necessarily stick to colour codes with wiring so check each stage.
These loco's running on DCC require quite a bit of tuning. I find the TCS M1 with it's high amp capacity ideal. I use dither control to improve the running to acceptable levels, and with this set-up running can be quite smooth.

 

[Mike Button]

Thanks mmad, it's starting to make sense, I'm not sure what self tapping screw you are referring to though, I can't see any screw heads near the rotary motor, there's two holding in the weights and one for the coupling but they are the only ones I can see. I take it by "confetti" you mean the capacitor? I've removed this. So just red to red, black to black and orange/grey to the motor terminals then. I've checked with a continuity meter (well battery and light bulb to be honest) and it's as you said.

Thanks again Mike

 

[Makemineadouble]

Mike, the terminals are held in position by self tapping screws --- to repeat the left hand one conducts power from the left hand track via the wheels, rotor housing via the self tapping screw to the terminal this must be isolated
right hope you got that let us know how you got on now it's time for Sesta

 

[Mike Button]

I thought I'd add a picture to perhaps remove some confusion, sorry about the placing of it, first time I've done this. The two small items at the bottom fit in the two brass encircled holes under the steel flaps. They rub against the disc on the motor and presumably transfer the current, mmad are these the self tapping screws that you mention? The red lead in the picture is connected to the tender link to the engine, the black lead touches against the rear weight when it's all put together. I know I need to connect the red and black decoder wires to these and then the orange and grey wires to the metal work where they are currently attached.
I've tried putting this on my programming track, without a decoder fitted and running under "0" DC setting, and there's a short as my controller trips out. Any ideas where this short is coming from?
MMAD I hope you enjoyed your siesta, I'm still confused about what a self tapping screw looks like, so if you could describe it on the above picture I would really appreciate it.
Thanks Mike

 

[Mike Button]

[No message]

 

[Brian]

Hi Mike
If your motor is the one shown about half way down this page DCC pages then it very simple to convert. As per the text.

However if your motor brush collects current via the left-hand screw, by the current passing through the screw that goes into the chassis, then onto the brush holders strip you must insulate that screw from the motors brush strip.

,

 

[Mike Button]

Thanks Brian, the motor looks very similar to the A4 you are showing. I'm still struggling with what you refer to as the left hand screw, is this the one that goes through the weight? I don't think the motor bush is connected to this screw, but I am still picking up a short when put on the track (before the decoder is fitted) I am loathe to fit a decoder before being sure the motor / chassis is safe to do so as I don't want to blow the decoder.
I've tried adding a picture of the motor but this is not working, can anyone suggest what I' doing wrong. I'm dragging a picture on to this section and clicking preview post and the pictures there, but when I add reply it's no longer there.

 

[Makemineadouble]

open a free account in photobucket and then paste in a link using insert link Mike
I'm sorry I don't have a ringfield motor here that I can photograph to show you what is required. But the short tells you you haven't isolated that pole.

 

[Mike Button]

Success, well sought of, found the short it was from the bar that holds on the middle wheel of the tender on one side. I've masked it off with insulating tape and hey presto no short. Runs fine now on setting "0". Went to wire up the decoder and found I've got another defective one. It wont accept a setting. I've learnt from experience that it's best to try these out before wiring them up, as this is not the first that I've had that cannot be set. It will be returned to the manufacturer and when a new one arrives I will try again.
Thanks to everyone who has suggested ideas, once again this forum has been very helpful.
Cheers
Mike

 

[Makemineadouble]

From your brief description of the decoder is it possible you have a Hornby decoder ?

 

[Mike Button]

QUOTE (Makemineadouble @ 21 May 2007, 16:34) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>From your brief description of the decoder is it possible you have a Hornby decoder ?

How did you guess!?!? Yes I'm operating a "Select" with Hornby decoders. So far I've sent four back to Hornby, three with faults encountered whilst fitting, one that suddenly stopped after working fine for three months. To be fair Hornby have been excellent about replacing them, just a shame the replacements don't work either!
I've swapped a decoder from another loco and now have a lovely looking Patriot belting round the track, thanks for all your help, Mike

I see Bachmann are now making a two function decoder, which is all I require for my steam fleet without lights or sound, anyone know if they are any good?

 

[Makemineadouble]

I'm sure the Bachmann decoders are fine for your requirements Mike. I certainly haven't any much negative press about them.