Model Railway Forum banner
1 - 18 of 18 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
746 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just received my City of Leciester and note that the rear end has been redesigned from the original models with the pony truck now fixed and flangeless wheels fitted.

This improves the model considerably - am I right in thinking this is the first issue to have this feature?

All we now need is a wartime non streamlined issue with streamlined tender, a pre-war non streamlined issue with single chimney, and 6256/46257 to complete the variations.
 

·
Just another modeller
Joined
·
9,983 Posts
QUOTE (pedromorgan @ 19 Sep 2008, 04:52) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>i must admit i am quite dissapointed with this news.
i think they had the perfect soloution with the A3, produce it with flangless wheels and include some flanged versions.
someone chose not to do that any more.
i like the fixed cartazzi but i do notice the flangless wheels.

Peter

*** I have to agree Peter - I hate the whole flangeless wheel concept, it really kills things realism wise to me.

There was no need to do it like that on a Coronation really... I've managed to keep a proper rear end on several DJH Duchesses with very little modification, mine are built for 36" and bigger but the one built for a friend was to negotiate 24" curves which it does just fine....

Its not all negative though... We shouldn't judge it finally yet:

The original chassis was pretty naff and I'd like to see a good photo of how they have handled the chassis cosmetically now, from front to rear... epecially the rear frames in the new version - if they've at last got less clear air at the front end and filled that horrid void under the cab properly then modifying it to have a proper rear truck may well be much, much easier than faffing around with all the proper frame extensions that are currently needed.

The million dollar question to me is.... have they improved the quality of the valve gear on this loco - it has been pretty poor so far compared to the quality of Walschaerts valve gear on other UK prototype loco's.... especially compared to Bachmann who do it much better!

Any chance of a photo or two Saint J??

Richard

Richard
 

·
No Longer Active.
Joined
·
13,319 Posts
Surely there must be a way round this, even if the flangeless wheels have to be kept for small radius curves - next thing we know it will be back to flangeless centre drivers.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
746 Posts
The valve gear is still not up to best of today's standards. I suffered from a common problem with this chassis in that one of the crankpins was loose and it caught the lh connecting rod. This is the second Coronation I've had this happen to - my City of Edinburgh suffered from the same problem. A tiny drop of Locktite solves this issue.

With regard to photos - what detail would you like and I will oblige?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
136 Posts
QUOTE (Saint Johnstoun @ 18 Sep 2008, 21:40) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Just received my City of Leciester and note that the rear end has been redesigned from the original models with the pony truck now fixed and flangeless wheels fitted.This improves the model considerably - am I right in thinking this is the first issue to have this feature?All we now need is a wartime non streamlined issue with streamlined tender, a pre-war non streamlined issue with single chimney, and 6256/46257 to complete the variations.Th NRM Streamlined Duchess of Hamilton also has the new fixed pony track.I don't like it as on curves less than Hornby 3rd radius the rear wheels are not above the track! I have a rebuilt B of B and a Brit and they both have the same problem.
 

·
In depth idiot
Joined
·
7,678 Posts
QUOTE (Brian Considine @ 19 Sep 2008, 07:21) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Surely there must be a way round this, even if the flangeless wheels have to be kept for small radius curves - next thing we know it will be back to flangeless centre drivers.
We chewed this over earlier this year http://www.modelrailforum.com/forums/index...?showtopic=4440 Clearly some people like this compromise, but it is completely unnecessary as the Bachmann A1 illustrates.

However, Hornby have made it pretty clear that they see their core market as 'quality train set' purchasers, who want product that is trouble free for set track operation. The sales they get clearly justify this position as far as they are concerned, so those of us wanting something better have to sort it out for ourselves. Annoying, but unlikely to change.
 

·
Just another modeller
Joined
·
9,983 Posts
QUOTE (Saint Johnstoun @ 19 Sep 2008, 16:30) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>The valve gear is still not up to best of today's standards. I suffered from a common problem with this chassis in that one of the crankpins was loose and it caught the lh connecting rod. This is the second Coronation I've had this happen to - my City of Edinburgh suffered from the same problem. A tiny drop of Locktite solves this issue.

With regard to photos - what detail would you like and I will oblige?

***Cheers - Originally there was a huge amount of air between front pony truck and chassis, and a really bad look to the rear end from rear driver to back of loco, so I'm interested to see how they've treated the overall chassis with the changes.

so.. any photo's from directly side on from either side would be really good - thank you!

kind regards

Richard
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,497 Posts
QUOTE (pedromorgan @ 18 Sep 2008, 20:52) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>i must admit i am quite dissapointed with this news.
i think they had the perfect soloution with the A3, produce it with flangless wheels and include some flanged versions.
someone chose not to do that any more....

According to the review in October's 'Railway Modeller' (which I've just received) there is a set of flanged wheels in the packing for those who want them.

Regards,
John
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
560 Posts
QUOTE (34C @ 19 Sep 2008, 11:18) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>We chewed this over earlier this year http://www.modelrailforum.com/forums/index...?showtopic=4440 Clearly some people like this compromise, but it is completely unnecessary as the Bachmann A1 illustrates.

Though the relief of the axle boxes on the Bachmann A1 are a lot shallower than they should be to allow the side play of the cartazzi wheels, and with the compromise that is "OO" it's quite hard to see any wheels in there at all from all but the lowest veiwing angles.
I'm not knocking the Bachmann A1, I currently have 4 of the beasts and look forward to the A2 being released sometime next year if we're lucky.

As for the Hornby solution, is it really any worse than going round a curve and having the rear truck sticking out the side?

I'm happy with both solutions.

I think that the Hornby City of Leicester looks great and that livery really suited the Princess Coronations, I'll be picking one up at some point if I'm lucky.

Andii
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
9,844 Posts
QUOTE Though the relief of the axle boxes on the Bachmann A1 are a lot shallower than they should be

I added a photo of Bittern's Cartazzi truck last week. (as in 1:1 restored Bittern not a model
It's at the very end of the thread, so if you don't scroll down you won't find it.

David
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
560 Posts
I can't find this picture David, I'm not sure which bottom I'm meant to be looking at


Anyway I think the following pictures illustrate my point

The real thing with thanks to 60134


And Hornbys 4472 on the left and Bachmanns 60114 on the right


I still like both locos and as I said have 4 A1s and will soon have 4 A3s.

Andii
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
9,844 Posts
A reason why I am not so keen on attachments
. Here it is again:-

Train Wheel Motor vehicle Vehicle Automotive tire

David
 

Attachments

·
Just another modeller
Joined
·
9,983 Posts
QUOTE (Saint Johnstoun @ 20 Sep 2008, 20:57) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Here is a pic of the City of Leicester rear frame area View attachment 784

***Thanks for that - the rear frames do indeed look better!

Richard
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
133 Posts
Hi Y'all,

This fixed rear pony truck on Pacifics has indeed been chewed over, but I am surprised that Hornby haven't paid any attention to the comments. I had a BoB and a Brit modified to more like prototype design, the Brit being particularly successful. I have discussed the Duchess with my Local model shop, and the same mods can be carried out making it more flexible for 24" - 30" radii., whilst retaining the cartazzi arrangement and appearance. I asked whether or not the fixed wheel arrangement could be altered on the A1, to which the response was yes. So I am sending 77 in for the same job.

It beats me how it can be thought to be acceptable to have a cab swinging wildly out of gauge, and call it ok, just because it looks good. A close look at a real Brit shows that the model design is one step too far.

Rant over, everything H****y does is perfect, 'scuse the cynicism, for I am told that if it looks right then it is right.

Cheers,

Hugh
 

·
In depth idiot
Joined
·
7,678 Posts
QUOTE (pedromorgan @ 24 Sep 2008, 06:36) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Can anyone confirm that the flanged wheels are included as suggested?

To me at least, that is the perfect soloution, and so simple!
It is better than not having them, 'tis true. But if you want to run the loco with them installed then for those I have played with so far significant work is necessary, examples follow.

The A3 and A4 pacifics wil take the flanged wheelset without modification, but it is carried above the rail surface, and limits the loco to about a 54" minimum radius. Either carving the mounting, or removing it entirely for substitution with a home brew inside frame truck, is necessary for those of us with smaller radius curves.

Inserting the flanged wheelset into the Britannia is near impossible, as the flanges foul on the rear of the (very nice) truck frame casting. Cut clearance for the flanges, and modify the mounting to let the axle drop enough for the wheelset to run on the rails, it will manage a 36" radius curve. For smaller radii, treatment as described for the A3 and A4 chassis will be necessary.
 
1 - 18 of 18 Posts
Top