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Just another modeller
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QUOTE (dbclass50 @ 10 Mar 2008, 06:27) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Hi John,

Yes, they are & there are definatly no caps fitted. Both Roco Loco's a CFL Series 900 Bo Bo Diesel & an SNCB ex DR44 2-10-0. Both would take off either full forward or reverse, sometime full reverse for about a second & then forward full, from the auto loops on SL - since posting I've had the thought that it may be due to the automation which simply powers off & then back on again. Lenz or ESU don't suffer from this.

We are using FLM Twin-Centres on SL.

There is the reason then Brian. The FLM twin centre puts out a quasi DCC signal that is less acurate than it should be - its actually not a very good DCC conctroller in fact.

The "work around" is two fold.

(1) add the bus termination I talk about all the time. 150 ohm 2~3 watt resistor and 0.1 micrifarad ceramic (monolithic) capacitor.

(2) turn off "run on DC" on the decoders. that usually means deducting 4 from CV 29

TCS are among the most stable decoders I've found with any compatible or compliant NMRA DCC system but do not like this quasi-DCC that the FL (or the Horby select) put out.

Whats happening? The critical point of the dcc signal is the zero crossing point. There is some bad hash on the FLM signal at that point that a DCC compliant decoder MAY misinterpret as a full voltage DC command, particularly as the first they will see is a bad signal suddenly turned on by your auto-loop control switching...

The ESU decoders are designed to take the existence of the FLM flakey waveform into account as whether they say it or not they are multi protocol to some degree, which is why they are OK with it.

My cheeky prediction... one day you too will become an NCE owner, like most of those more serious modellers who started with an expensive but "less than perfect digital system" such as FLM, ZTC and others..... You'd be amazed how many of your contemporaries have made the switch and are much happier than they've ever been with their railways runnng


Regards

Richard
DCCconcepts
 

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Just another modeller
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QUOTE (copierman @ 9 Mar 2008, 04:41) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Rechipped two of my Hornby steam locos with the improved R8215 4 function Hornby decoders. They now run as they should and control is very smooth and sweet unlike the previous version of this decoder in the same loco`s which ran very erratic and did strange things.

The improved decoder is in a different style bubble pack with Hornby International Branding for Lima/Jouef/ Riverossi & Electrotren along the bottom. If you look into the bubble pack you will see a red dot on the largest chip.

I am very keen on this type of decoder because I like its very small size and it fits into the boiler of my King Arthur Locos plus the price is very cheap.

If its reliability holds up it will enable me to use it on mass for my large loco fleet instead of the Bachmann 36-553 3 function decoder which although is very reliable is rather large and difficult to fit into steam loco`s making it mainly suitable for mass installation on my Diesel loco fleet..

** Hi: I was recently reading some email from a hornby dealer who cliamed to be "in the loop" info-wise about this.

He told me that he has been informed by Hornby that there will be changes in two changes, and that the current "red dot" version is not the full rework - only an interim patch so to speak - Following this in (est) April will be yet another software change in the chip which will be indicated by a yellow dot... so its good that the change so far is positive, but perhaps don't be in too much of a hurry to buy up, as the April upgrade will address other decoder issues....

As to why they'd do this I have no idea. Following bad with a "better" before releasing the "good" version seems to me to not be a really good approach......

Personally I'd stick with the TCS MC-2 - Still very much the best performing smallish decoder I've used, or the TCS M-1 if really tiny is wanted!.

Richard
 

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QUOTE (iansa @ 12 Mar 2008, 08:13) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Hi group, I too am an Ecos user (since nov 06) and agree with Neil.
The Ecos does not have to be upgraded all the time, only if the owner wants the available upgrades as they are released.
The upgrades cost nothing, only a matter of connecting to computer or modem and the latest version is downloaded in minutes.
I operated Lenz for years which I still use through the Ecos sniffer port mainly for walk arround throtles. This can be done with any NMRA compliant DCC system.

Ian sa

We are all evangelists for our own choices and I don't disagree with the positive comments above BUT we should be aware that DCC systems are like cars - very personal in preference. What you love I may not etc....

We have to qualify needs before we recommend. The same system is not the same to everyone, as layout types, operational styles and layout sizes vary wildly.

If a console type full feature system is wanted, then ECOS is truly an excellent choice.

If you like sound and want to interact with the decoder, like to be with your trains, be close for shunting, like to interact with visitors at op sessions, ever have casual visitors that might want to operate shows or follow the trains around the layout then as a personal preference I'd strongly recommend the NCE PowerHouse Pro. Very, very up to date and regularly updatable, 28 functions, NMRA compliant/conformant and so easy to understand and use that its OK for 7 to 70

Cost wise they are about equal.
ECOS is complete out of the box
Powerhouse Pro + a second handset + a quality power supply is about the same as ECOS

I find programming and adjustment of loco CV's better with NCE as it has a very good programming track ability compared to other brands and will do ANYTHING on the main without the danger of programming the wrong loco

BOTH can read CV's.

I use both systems often and both are totally competent products.

Richard
DCCconcepts
 

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QUOTE (neil_s_wood @ 12 Mar 2008, 13:18) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>There is also the Mobile Control for ECoS and the forthcoming Radio Control for EcoS as walkaround cordless controls. See the user reviews for more info.

**Yes Neil but you reinforce my point again.

I made the point as I have hands on with both and regularly use both and they are not the same in any way, differing a LOT in usability.... so Each os "cool" in its own way but an ECOS with mobile control is not the same as an NCE at all.

Ease of use and "comfort" levels vary between units a lot too - even when the features are the same, the interface is not.

There is a fundamental difference in the usage between any console with a handset added and a system designed to be a handset + black box.

Lastly the cost difference.

(1) NCE with two full feature Procab handsets + power supply = ECOS
BUT
(2) To make the ECOS = the walk around ability of the NCE you need to add 2 mobile control - which basicially doubles the system cost compared to the NCE system.

So... I accept totally the evangelism issue, but the differences are real.

Plus - as a user of both systems in discussion - I'm not saying one is good the other not - both are really very good but differences really ARE important because every USER is also an individual!

Richard
DCCconcepts
 
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