[pedromorgan]

i think this argument is getting a bit ahead of itself. hornby cannot be compared directly with roco or any other continental manufacturer yet. many of the continental manufacturers are producing high end locos for a particular market-and they are going bust in their droves!

hornby's homa market is very different in that it caters mainly for a more budget market. it does that because that is where the UK market is. that is why they are making money and others are loosing it. people simply cannot afford to spend stupid ammounts of money on a hobby anymore. they are too busy trying to take out a bank loan to fill their cars fuel tank!
It will be very interesting to see what happens in the next 5 years as they try to take that same market in europe. especially as this market is now held mostly by bachmann!!
to try and compare the companies now is daft. but give it 5 years and we will see how well they do.

peter

 

[pedromorgan]

"Maybe there are a large number of potential wanabee continental modellers who would welcome UK type budget prices and standards? "
theres me for a start!
i have just discovered the PIKO hobby range. fantastic! OK the detail isnt A1 but its good enough for me and they are only £40 for a big german electric! i was a little dissapointed that they didnt announce an expansion to this range this year.

Peter

 

[pedromorgan]

is there really any point in getting peoople to start modelling in 3 rail?
3 rail is a has been.
3 rail is past it
3 rail is dead.

Peter

 

[pedromorgan]

"I don't have the space for HO but if I did I would switch to Marklin in a second and never look back."
why on earth would you do that?
they may be good but they aint that good. i think you wold have to be barking to start with 3 rail in this day and age. i admit the track dosent look too bad but why would anyone start modelling in 3 rail? what happens when one of your freinds brings his new 9F round and pops it on your track? or your grandson comes over with his hornby thomas? how are you going to explain the virtues of 3 rail then?...

Roco and fleishmann are just as good and they cover most of the range. and you dont have a grandson throwing a tantrum because his thomas dosent work!

on a side note i did once try and convert a marklin loco to 2 rail but no luck. the problem was that the wheels wernt insulated at all. i would have had to replace all the wheels and the motor. or alternativly just buy a roco.

Peter

 

[pedromorgan]

right where do i start with this post...

"Easy, I don't run American or British prototype and have no desire to." thats fine. but what if you did?

" I know it may be hard for some to understand but I like German trains much more than British and don't feel limited in anyway because they produce more than I'll ever be able to buy." not at all. i like engines that are "a little bit different" regardless of where they are from.

"Three rail is what it is." yep i'l go along with that.

"If I want to run Lionel do I go to bed wishing than I could run Hornby on my layout," i have no objections there!

"Hornby, gulp has less than 1% exposure in the US. It's not even thought of. They make great products for people that like them" no quibbles there either but bear in mind that they have just aquired lima and rivarossi and there is alot of money in the US market and hornby is going to be wanting a chunk of it. give it 5 years and see what happens. i think hornby has its boxing gloves on!

"but you're a small little country stuck on a dank, moldy island." it was 19 degrees yesterday and we are in the middle of a drout.
"What I do like is visiting your preserved 1:1 railroads because you all seem to do a better job of it and the NRM is miles ahead of the DB Museum." i couldnt agree more. withought wishing to blow britains own trumpet too much i have been to many railway museums across the world and i still think the NRM is head and shoulders above the rest.

"Some of you need to travel outside of your home country." i concider my pasport to be well stamped.

"Every train show here (United States) has 3-rail layouts runnning ... every one. If that's what your train needs that's what you buy. It's not a matter of which one is best. Nobody cares about that argument. In't a non-starter. Peter I just don't understand what your fixation with 3-rail is. Did your dad force it on you when you were a little boy?"
no he didnt force it on me. i never had 3 rail. (i am working on a bit of london underground 4 rail stock though but thats another story!) my problem is very simple, 3 rail it 50's trainset technology trying to make it in a 21st century model railway world.
it is simply the betamax of railway modelling.
it belongs on the shelf with Zero1. it has no advantages over other control methods.
i think lionel exists to produce models for people who want to run toy trains like the ones they had when they were a kid. i have no problem with that but i concider it toy trains and not railway modelling.

Marklin are in serious trouble. i think if they dont adapt to a new market environment then they will go the way of the dodo.

that isnt just a 3 rail statement. i think its also about these high-quality-high-price models that seem to occupy a large part of continental modellling. people dont have as much expendible income as they once had and the prices of models have only gone up.
i think a big problem with the continental market at the moment is that they are all trying to occupy the space taken by BLI in the US. nobody wants to be the bachmann spectrum or the Athearn blue box.

it will be interesting to see how it all pans out.

Peter

 

[pedromorgan]

" can't accept that! Betamax was superior in quality to VHS but lost out in the format wars (which are being repeated in Blu-Ray vs HDD 30 years later). It is an illustration that having the best mousetrap does not automatically lead to commercial success. To equate 3-rail with Betamax is to imply that 3-rail is a beaten superior format, which it isn't; it's just a beaten format."

i agree. i should have chosen a different metaphore. betamax is also an ancestor of beta SP and SX that i use evry day at work and we could not do withought. they are far better than anything else at the moment. i dont think the porsche comparison is correct though as they use the same petrol and use the same roads. i will try and think of better one.

Peter

 

[pedromorgan]

"It may be fifties technology for Hornby but it has been in use longer than that in Germany. " mystatement had nothing to do with hornby 3 rail. i think it applys equaly to lionel.

"Marklin and three rail have been around for well over 100 years, Hornby have been around for maybe half that." lionel is getting on a bit too. the the world is changing and marklin isnt. thats the trouble. its not just the products that have changed but also the people who buy them.

"I don't use three rail myself but if others choose to then that really is their choice" cant argue with that but i really cant see the point.

"There is plenty room in Railway modelling for alternative formats" i think marklin is finding out (as hornby did with zero 1) that actually there arnt and the market is too small to support such nichie formats.

"Variety is a good thing" absoloutly.

"It is bordering on facism to insist that everyone models the same thing which from the views of two individuals seems to be Hornby OO." has anyone on this forum even sugested that you must model hornby OO?

"There is a big wide world out there. Check it out some time." oah come on this forum is above such bun fights. if you want to vent frustrations may i divert you towards the general direction of RMweb.
i model brittish OO
chinese HO
German HO
american HO
with a couple of odd balls thrown in for good measure. (note they all run on 2 rail DC!)

Peter