Hornby says it will post £8m profit
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Easy, I don't run American or British prototype and have no desire to. I know it may be hard for some to understand but I like German trains much more than British and don't feel limited in anyway because they produce more than I'll ever be able to buy. Three rail is what it is. If I want to run Lionel do I go to bed wishing than I could run Hornby on my layout, I think not. Hornby, gulp has less than 1% exposure in the US. It's not even thought of. They make great products for people that like them but you're a small little country stuck on a dank, moldy island.
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What I do like is visiting your preserved 1:1 railroads because you all seem to do a better job of it and the NRM is miles ahead of the DB Museum.
Some of you need to travel outside of your home country. Every train show here (United States) has 3-rail layouts runnning ... every one. If that's what your train needs that's what you buy. It's not a matter of which one is best. Nobody cares about that argument. In't a non-starter.
Peter I just don't understand what your fixation with 3-rail is. Did your dad force it on you when you were a little boy?
OK I got it off my chest, you'll hear no more from me on this tiresome subject.
What I do like is visiting your preserved 1:1 railroads because you all seem to do a better job of it and the NRM is miles ahead of the DB Museum.
Some of you need to travel outside of your home country. Every train show here (United States) has 3-rail layouts runnning ... every one. If that's what your train needs that's what you buy. It's not a matter of which one is best. Nobody cares about that argument. In't a non-starter.
Peter I just don't understand what your fixation with 3-rail is. Did your dad force it on you when you were a little boy?
OK I got it off my chest, you'll hear no more from me on this tiresome subject.
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QUOTE So Hornby supply Marklin with more than just Harry Potter kit!
What makes you think that?
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It must be just be the top part of the body as it is modified substantially. It is digital and three rail.
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What makes you think that?
It must be just be the top part of the body as it is modified substantially. It is digital and three rail.
Joined
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3,966 Posts
right where do i start with this post...
"Easy, I don't run American or British prototype and have no desire to." thats fine. but what if you did?
" I know it may be hard for some to understand but I like German trains much more than British and don't feel limited in anyway because they produce more than I'll ever be able to buy." not at all. i like engines that are "a little bit different" regardless of where they are from.
"Three rail is what it is." yep i'l go along with that.
"If I want to run Lionel do I go to bed wishing than I could run Hornby on my layout," i have no objections there!
"Hornby, gulp has less than 1% exposure in the US. It's not even thought of. They make great products for people that like them" no quibbles there either but bear in mind that they have just aquired lima and rivarossi and there is alot of money in the US market and hornby is going to be wanting a chunk of it. give it 5 years and see what happens. i think hornby has its boxing gloves on!
"but you're a small little country stuck on a dank, moldy island." it was 19 degrees yesterday and we are in the middle of a drout.
"What I do like is visiting your preserved 1:1 railroads because you all seem to do a better job of it and the NRM is miles ahead of the DB Museum." i couldnt agree more. withought wishing to blow britains own trumpet too much i have been to many railway museums across the world and i still think the NRM is head and shoulders above the rest.
"Some of you need to travel outside of your home country." i concider my pasport to be well stamped.
"Every train show here (United States) has 3-rail layouts runnning ... every one. If that's what your train needs that's what you buy. It's not a matter of which one is best. Nobody cares about that argument. In't a non-starter. Peter I just don't understand what your fixation with 3-rail is. Did your dad force it on you when you were a little boy?"
no he didnt force it on me. i never had 3 rail. (i am working on a bit of london underground 4 rail stock though but thats another story!) my problem is very simple, 3 rail it 50's trainset technology trying to make it in a 21st century model railway world.
it is simply the betamax of railway modelling.
it belongs on the shelf with Zero1. it has no advantages over other control methods.
i think lionel exists to produce models for people who want to run toy trains like the ones they had when they were a kid. i have no problem with that but i concider it toy trains and not railway modelling.
Marklin are in serious trouble. i think if they dont adapt to a new market environment then they will go the way of the dodo.
that isnt just a 3 rail statement. i think its also about these high-quality-high-price models that seem to occupy a large part of continental modellling. people dont have as much expendible income as they once had and the prices of models have only gone up.
i think a big problem with the continental market at the moment is that they are all trying to occupy the space taken by BLI in the US. nobody wants to be the bachmann spectrum or the Athearn blue box.
it will be interesting to see how it all pans out.
Peter
"Easy, I don't run American or British prototype and have no desire to." thats fine. but what if you did?
" I know it may be hard for some to understand but I like German trains much more than British and don't feel limited in anyway because they produce more than I'll ever be able to buy." not at all. i like engines that are "a little bit different" regardless of where they are from.
"Three rail is what it is." yep i'l go along with that.
"If I want to run Lionel do I go to bed wishing than I could run Hornby on my layout," i have no objections there!
"Hornby, gulp has less than 1% exposure in the US. It's not even thought of. They make great products for people that like them" no quibbles there either but bear in mind that they have just aquired lima and rivarossi and there is alot of money in the US market and hornby is going to be wanting a chunk of it. give it 5 years and see what happens. i think hornby has its boxing gloves on!
"but you're a small little country stuck on a dank, moldy island." it was 19 degrees yesterday and we are in the middle of a drout.
"What I do like is visiting your preserved 1:1 railroads because you all seem to do a better job of it and the NRM is miles ahead of the DB Museum." i couldnt agree more. withought wishing to blow britains own trumpet too much i have been to many railway museums across the world and i still think the NRM is head and shoulders above the rest.
"Some of you need to travel outside of your home country." i concider my pasport to be well stamped.
"Every train show here (United States) has 3-rail layouts runnning ... every one. If that's what your train needs that's what you buy. It's not a matter of which one is best. Nobody cares about that argument. In't a non-starter. Peter I just don't understand what your fixation with 3-rail is. Did your dad force it on you when you were a little boy?"
no he didnt force it on me. i never had 3 rail. (i am working on a bit of london underground 4 rail stock though but thats another story!) my problem is very simple, 3 rail it 50's trainset technology trying to make it in a 21st century model railway world.
it is simply the betamax of railway modelling.
it belongs on the shelf with Zero1. it has no advantages over other control methods.
i think lionel exists to produce models for people who want to run toy trains like the ones they had when they were a kid. i have no problem with that but i concider it toy trains and not railway modelling.
Marklin are in serious trouble. i think if they dont adapt to a new market environment then they will go the way of the dodo.
that isnt just a 3 rail statement. i think its also about these high-quality-high-price models that seem to occupy a large part of continental modellling. people dont have as much expendible income as they once had and the prices of models have only gone up.
i think a big problem with the continental market at the moment is that they are all trying to occupy the space taken by BLI in the US. nobody wants to be the bachmann spectrum or the Athearn blue box.
it will be interesting to see how it all pans out.
Peter
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10,743 Posts
>it is simply the betamax of railway modelling
No, no, no, no, noooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!
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I can't accept that! Betamax was superior in quality to VHS but lost out in the format wars (which are being repeated in Blu-Ray vs HDD 30 years later). It is an illustration that having the best mousetrap does not automatically lead to commercial success. To equate 3-rail with Betamax is to imply that 3-rail is a beaten superior format, which it isn't; it's just a beaten format. The fact that Marklin cling on to 3-rail is not unlike Porsche continuing to produce rear engined 911s. Hanging an engine that far outside the line of rear axle is just plain nuts from an engineering point of view, but those crazy germans have stuck at it and used some ingenious technology to overcome the inherent flaws in the original layout.
David
No, no, no, no, noooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!
I can't accept that! Betamax was superior in quality to VHS but lost out in the format wars (which are being repeated in Blu-Ray vs HDD 30 years later). It is an illustration that having the best mousetrap does not automatically lead to commercial success. To equate 3-rail with Betamax is to imply that 3-rail is a beaten superior format, which it isn't; it's just a beaten format. The fact that Marklin cling on to 3-rail is not unlike Porsche continuing to produce rear engined 911s. Hanging an engine that far outside the line of rear axle is just plain nuts from an engineering point of view, but those crazy germans have stuck at it and used some ingenious technology to overcome the inherent flaws in the original layout.
David
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3,966 Posts
" can't accept that! Betamax was superior in quality to VHS but lost out in the format wars (which are being repeated in Blu-Ray vs HDD 30 years later). It is an illustration that having the best mousetrap does not automatically lead to commercial success. To equate 3-rail with Betamax is to imply that 3-rail is a beaten superior format, which it isn't; it's just a beaten format."
i agree. i should have chosen a different metaphore. betamax is also an ancestor of beta SP and SX that i use evry day at work and we could not do withought. they are far better than anything else at the moment. i dont think the porsche comparison is correct though as they use the same petrol and use the same roads. i will try and think of better one.
Peter
i agree. i should have chosen a different metaphore. betamax is also an ancestor of beta SP and SX that i use evry day at work and we could not do withought. they are far better than anything else at the moment. i dont think the porsche comparison is correct though as they use the same petrol and use the same roads. i will try and think of better one.
Peter
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8,102 Posts
QUOTE very simple, 3 rail it 50's trainset technology trying to make it in a 21st century model railway world. It may be fifties technology for Hornby but it has been in use longer than that in Germany.
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QUOTE it is simply the betamax of railway modelling.
betamax was around for maybe 10 years, Marklin and three rail have been around for well over 100 years, Hornby have been around for maybe half that.
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QUOTE it belongs on the shelf with Zero1. it has no advantages over other control methods.
It has better current collection due to the extra rail.
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I don't use three rail myself but if others choose to then that really is their choice.
QUOTE it's just a beaten format.
In what way?
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Because it is not the dominant format.
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There is plenty room in Railway modelling for alternative formats. Variety is a good thing. It is bordering on facism to insist that everyone models the same thing which from the views of two individuals seems to be Hornby OO. There is a big wide world out there. Check it out some time.
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QUOTE it is simply the betamax of railway modelling.
betamax was around for maybe 10 years, Marklin and three rail have been around for well over 100 years, Hornby have been around for maybe half that.
QUOTE it belongs on the shelf with Zero1. it has no advantages over other control methods.
It has better current collection due to the extra rail.
I don't use three rail myself but if others choose to then that really is their choice.
QUOTE it's just a beaten format.
In what way?
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3,966 Posts
"It may be fifties technology for Hornby but it has been in use longer than that in Germany. " mystatement had nothing to do with hornby 3 rail. i think it applys equaly to lionel.
"Marklin and three rail have been around for well over 100 years, Hornby have been around for maybe half that." lionel is getting on a bit too. the the world is changing and marklin isnt. thats the trouble. its not just the products that have changed but also the people who buy them.
"I don't use three rail myself but if others choose to then that really is their choice" cant argue with that but i really cant see the point.
"There is plenty room in Railway modelling for alternative formats" i think marklin is finding out (as hornby did with zero 1) that actually there arnt and the market is too small to support such nichie formats.
"Variety is a good thing" absoloutly.
"It is bordering on facism to insist that everyone models the same thing which from the views of two individuals seems to be Hornby OO." has anyone on this forum even sugested that you must model hornby OO?
"There is a big wide world out there. Check it out some time." oah come on this forum is above such bun fights. if you want to vent frustrations may i divert you towards the general direction of RMweb.
i model brittish OO
chinese HO
German HO
american HO
with a couple of odd balls thrown in for good measure. (note they all run on 2 rail DC!)
Peter
"Marklin and three rail have been around for well over 100 years, Hornby have been around for maybe half that." lionel is getting on a bit too. the the world is changing and marklin isnt. thats the trouble. its not just the products that have changed but also the people who buy them.
"I don't use three rail myself but if others choose to then that really is their choice" cant argue with that but i really cant see the point.
"There is plenty room in Railway modelling for alternative formats" i think marklin is finding out (as hornby did with zero 1) that actually there arnt and the market is too small to support such nichie formats.
"Variety is a good thing" absoloutly.
"It is bordering on facism to insist that everyone models the same thing which from the views of two individuals seems to be Hornby OO." has anyone on this forum even sugested that you must model hornby OO?
"There is a big wide world out there. Check it out some time." oah come on this forum is above such bun fights. if you want to vent frustrations may i divert you towards the general direction of RMweb.
i model brittish OO
chinese HO
German HO
american HO
with a couple of odd balls thrown in for good measure. (note they all run on 2 rail DC!)
Peter
Joined
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10,743 Posts
>It is bordering on facism to insist that everyone models the same thing which from the views of two individuals seems to be Hornby OO. There is a big wide world out there. Check it out some time
My view is that 3-rail is a beaten format. I am not saying you shouldn't model it but I am saying if you expect the rest of the modelling world to start producing stuff for it, you'll be having tea with Godot before that happens. Bringing accusations of facism into the argument is usually a sign of desperation.
David
My view is that 3-rail is a beaten format. I am not saying you shouldn't model it but I am saying if you expect the rest of the modelling world to start producing stuff for it, you'll be having tea with Godot before that happens. Bringing accusations of facism into the argument is usually a sign of desperation.
David
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8,102 Posts
QUOTE I don't use three rail myself but if others choose to then that really is their choice" cant argue with that but i really cant see the point.
The point is you have been on a rant about three rail on several threads for some time. People are really starting to wonder what your problem is? What is your three rail obsession about?
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QUOTE There is a big wide world out there. Check it out some time." oah come on this forum is above such bun fights. if you want to vent frustrations may i divert you towards the general direction of RMweb.
Take a good look in the mirror! That really is a bit rich considering the provocative posts you have been leaving re three rail. The only frustration I have is with your dogmatic views. If this forum is above such bunfights (what ever that is) why do you persist with this anti three rail tirade. You have said it dozens of times now, we have heard you. Can you just accept that other people have different views rather than trying to ram yours down their throats.
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The reason I use the term facism is because this tends to associated with imposing your views on others without having any acceptance or tolerance of other views. Maybe it's a bit strong but I don't see any tolerance coming from the anti three rail camp.
If you are going to rant on about it then you really have to expect people to answer it. All I'm saying is if people want three rail then then leave them to it.
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Can we maybe drop this three rail thing and get back to the thread. This has really gone on too long. I am starting to get convinced to change my system to three rail because of this arguement and I can't afford it!
The point is you have been on a rant about three rail on several threads for some time. People are really starting to wonder what your problem is? What is your three rail obsession about?
QUOTE There is a big wide world out there. Check it out some time." oah come on this forum is above such bun fights. if you want to vent frustrations may i divert you towards the general direction of RMweb.
Take a good look in the mirror! That really is a bit rich considering the provocative posts you have been leaving re three rail. The only frustration I have is with your dogmatic views. If this forum is above such bunfights (what ever that is) why do you persist with this anti three rail tirade. You have said it dozens of times now, we have heard you. Can you just accept that other people have different views rather than trying to ram yours down their throats.
The reason I use the term facism is because this tends to associated with imposing your views on others without having any acceptance or tolerance of other views. Maybe it's a bit strong but I don't see any tolerance coming from the anti three rail camp.
If you are going to rant on about it then you really have to expect people to answer it. All I'm saying is if people want three rail then then leave them to it.
Can we maybe drop this three rail thing and get back to the thread. This has really gone on too long. I am starting to get convinced to change my system to three rail because of this arguement and I can't afford it!
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8,102 Posts
QUOTE My view is that 3-rail is a beaten format. I am not saying you shouldn't model it but I am saying if you expect the rest of the modelling world to start producing stuff for it, you'll be having tea with Godot before that happens. Bringing accusations of facism into the argument is usually a sign of desperation
David, You weren't the other intolerant individual I was referring to. Apologies if that was the impression given.
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Whether three rail is beaten or not as such is debatable but it certainly is not the dominant format and is unlikely to do anything but decline.
Desperation! You bet. And I don't even model three rail.
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David, You weren't the other intolerant individual I was referring to. Apologies if that was the impression given.
Whether three rail is beaten or not as such is debatable but it certainly is not the dominant format and is unlikely to do anything but decline.
Desperation! You bet. And I don't even model three rail.
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and on that positive note I'll close this thread. If any have issues with that you can PM me.
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