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Should be with me tomorrow afternoon, so a reveiew and comparison between class 60 sound chips from Howes, Olivia's and Hornby then!
hornby sound fitted class 60 (Hornby sound chip)
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Hornby class 60 review!
Lets start, then stop
F1 Start, nice start, somewhat labored but good? Very noticeable the short loop however that the engine idle is on. Given the loco can spend some time just at idle in a siding or on depot, this is a bit disappointing. "Click-Click-Click" sound comes on random to brake it up, but only for short period, about 3-4 seconds then back to looping idle.
Actually, while writing this review the idle has been on for several minutes and it is very annoying. Its such a short and obvious loop it has to be regarded as very poorly done. Certainly not a patch on the Olivia's class 60 idle sound.
Shut down is very nice, not too long though.
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I'm Horny!!
F2 - High pitched airhorn. This is a continuos /doppler sound so your controller needs to be on "latch" (no problem on Dynamis) so you can vary the length of time it is on.
Same for
F3 which is Low tone.
F 11 is a Hightone of a set short length and
F 12 is the low tone of set short length
Using the dynmais it is a nice touch to have both options, though i know most will prefer the set short horns on F 11 and F12. I think Hornby should possibly have put these together and I suspect I will do so, something like thus fir example, f key numbers may be whatever suits.
F12 High tone continuous
F13 high tone short set time
F14 Low tone continuous
F15 low tone set short time
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F4 coupler- This is a 2 stage sound. First press of my Mouse /Dynamis button and we have the what sounds like a buffer clash
Then you get a short air release type of sound
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f 5 Compressor - Very very loud, it drowns out the engine noise. It hopefully is possible to lower the volume of this sound otherwise it is for me far too loud and a shame, hornby must adjust the volume of this as it is way too loud.
Again the sound is made up of a short loop of sounds.
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F6 = Shunting mode - I will delete this as its not needed to me.
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F7
Brake release - nice, first part is the air release sound, the whoooosh, then come a bit of creeping sound, not sure the second bit is as noticeable when the engine is running, you really only hear the whoooosshh but it is good.
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F8 - Notch up - no air release just straight into revving motor., seems to go from idle to a mid range then into a very high revving top end. Again, its noticeable that the sounds are short loops that repeat quite often.
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F9 notch down - nice sounds with the notching down and seemingly very responsive. There is a very good play factor using notch up and down .
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f 10 -Ventilator - There is the sound of something opening and then a whinnying noise that again can be left on as long as you like.
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f13 - train brake. This one baffled me. It sound like the creaking floorboards of the Black Pearl, I expected Capt. Jack Sparrow to shout something out lol.
It sounds OK but its not one i think i will use much?
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F14 guards whistle - !!!!!! Railtours I guess.
Again, can be left on indefinitely if you really want to annoy fellow operators or those next to you in a show.
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So that after an hour of ownership is first impressions? Well, despite taking it out of the box to find one buffer broken off and a set of steps had come loose, and it seems no etched nameplates (mine will all be re-named however) this is a good model, at least the part i was interested in, the sound. Yes, on "test" the sounds are obviously looped and on too short a loop at that. As ever, the proof will be in the eating or this case the running of the loco round my depot layout and on a 1300 ton steel train on the clubs tailchaser.
No Aux 1 or 2 set on any f key but i guess most of us who take them apart and fit cab lights, separate tail lights etc can sort that out.
Pity there is no flange squeal as at shows or home use for that the sound of the flange squeal on things like my SWd class 67 is superb and I Think every sound chip needs it.
Cv 63, overall sound is set to 64 out of the box and I have to say i think there is distortion. I shall later today be fitting base reflex and enhanced speakers and lowering the volume to around 40-50. I will report again on how the chip sounds with dcc supplies base reflex speakers.
Then, all being well i will take the three class 60 i have with sound, the Howes version, the Olivia's trains version and the hornby version to my model railways clubs tailchaser layout for a spin.
Will also do a static side by side sound review.
If you asked me right now, i would be tempted to say very little between them with perhaps the hornby one the best!!! As a RTr sound project it is very good and i am sure for new people buying sound they will be very impressed.
If you factor in the costs (which i dont wnen it comes to sound) the hornby one wins hands down, or at least by about £30-50 +/-!
Lets start, then stop
F1 Start, nice start, somewhat labored but good? Very noticeable the short loop however that the engine idle is on. Given the loco can spend some time just at idle in a siding or on depot, this is a bit disappointing. "Click-Click-Click" sound comes on random to brake it up, but only for short period, about 3-4 seconds then back to looping idle.
Actually, while writing this review the idle has been on for several minutes and it is very annoying. Its such a short and obvious loop it has to be regarded as very poorly done. Certainly not a patch on the Olivia's class 60 idle sound.
Shut down is very nice, not too long though.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm Horny!!
F2 - High pitched airhorn. This is a continuos /doppler sound so your controller needs to be on "latch" (no problem on Dynamis) so you can vary the length of time it is on.
Same for
F3 which is Low tone.
F 11 is a Hightone of a set short length and
F 12 is the low tone of set short length
Using the dynmais it is a nice touch to have both options, though i know most will prefer the set short horns on F 11 and F12. I think Hornby should possibly have put these together and I suspect I will do so, something like thus fir example, f key numbers may be whatever suits.
F12 High tone continuous
F13 high tone short set time
F14 Low tone continuous
F15 low tone set short time
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
F4 coupler- This is a 2 stage sound. First press of my Mouse /Dynamis button and we have the what sounds like a buffer clash
Then you get a short air release type of sound
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
f 5 Compressor - Very very loud, it drowns out the engine noise. It hopefully is possible to lower the volume of this sound otherwise it is for me far too loud and a shame, hornby must adjust the volume of this as it is way too loud.
Again the sound is made up of a short loop of sounds.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
F6 = Shunting mode - I will delete this as its not needed to me.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
F7
Brake release - nice, first part is the air release sound, the whoooosh, then come a bit of creeping sound, not sure the second bit is as noticeable when the engine is running, you really only hear the whoooosshh but it is good.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
F8 - Notch up - no air release just straight into revving motor., seems to go from idle to a mid range then into a very high revving top end. Again, its noticeable that the sounds are short loops that repeat quite often.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
F9 notch down - nice sounds with the notching down and seemingly very responsive. There is a very good play factor using notch up and down .
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
f 10 -Ventilator - There is the sound of something opening and then a whinnying noise that again can be left on as long as you like.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
f13 - train brake. This one baffled me. It sound like the creaking floorboards of the Black Pearl, I expected Capt. Jack Sparrow to shout something out lol.
It sounds OK but its not one i think i will use much?
F14 guards whistle - !!!!!! Railtours I guess.
Again, can be left on indefinitely if you really want to annoy fellow operators or those next to you in a show.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So that after an hour of ownership is first impressions? Well, despite taking it out of the box to find one buffer broken off and a set of steps had come loose, and it seems no etched nameplates (mine will all be re-named however) this is a good model, at least the part i was interested in, the sound. Yes, on "test" the sounds are obviously looped and on too short a loop at that. As ever, the proof will be in the eating or this case the running of the loco round my depot layout and on a 1300 ton steel train on the clubs tailchaser.
No Aux 1 or 2 set on any f key but i guess most of us who take them apart and fit cab lights, separate tail lights etc can sort that out.
Pity there is no flange squeal as at shows or home use for that the sound of the flange squeal on things like my SWd class 67 is superb and I Think every sound chip needs it.
Cv 63, overall sound is set to 64 out of the box and I have to say i think there is distortion. I shall later today be fitting base reflex and enhanced speakers and lowering the volume to around 40-50. I will report again on how the chip sounds with dcc supplies base reflex speakers.
Then, all being well i will take the three class 60 i have with sound, the Howes version, the Olivia's trains version and the hornby version to my model railways clubs tailchaser layout for a spin.
Will also do a static side by side sound review.
If you asked me right now, i would be tempted to say very little between them with perhaps the hornby one the best!!! As a RTr sound project it is very good and i am sure for new people buying sound they will be very impressed.
If you factor in the costs (which i dont wnen it comes to sound) the hornby one wins hands down, or at least by about £30-50 +/-!
Joined
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334 Posts
Right, tea over its time to sort out base speakers for the hornby class 60.
Someone on RMWEB asked if a body swap was possible?
No probs, I just took the Transrail body (top body / chassis in pic) off 60066 and it fits straight on the Eastern (middle body / chassis in pic).
Noting comments on hornby drilling out the underneath of the exhaust but only the "body" plastic and not the actuall silencer, it makes no difference to the sound as it was exactly the same on the re-bodied transrail one, so in effect hornby wasted their time drilling the "holes" that they have.
If you look at the bottom pic hopefully you can see how I have fitted a Base enhanced speaker (facing down so sound bounces out through boggies, note this was a tempuary install and the speakers need a dab of glue to hold in place) where hornby have the 20 x 40 and I have the base reflex at the other end (also facing down). I drilled out the silencer to fit the chip in there. This seems to allow the hot air from around the chip to escape nicley through the hole in the silencer, just need clag now!!!
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Someone on RMWEB asked if a body swap was possible?
No probs, I just took the Transrail body (top body / chassis in pic) off 60066 and it fits straight on the Eastern (middle body / chassis in pic).
Noting comments on hornby drilling out the underneath of the exhaust but only the "body" plastic and not the actuall silencer, it makes no difference to the sound as it was exactly the same on the re-bodied transrail one, so in effect hornby wasted their time drilling the "holes" that they have.
If you look at the bottom pic hopefully you can see how I have fitted a Base enhanced speaker (facing down so sound bounces out through boggies, note this was a tempuary install and the speakers need a dab of glue to hold in place) where hornby have the 20 x 40 and I have the base reflex at the other end (also facing down). I drilled out the silencer to fit the chip in there. This seems to allow the hot air from around the chip to escape nicley through the hole in the silencer, just need clag now!!!
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Chalk and cheese, not what i had for tea but the difference between the rtr Hornby sound fitted class 60 and the mod after fitting base reflex speaker.
Taking the hornby fitted esu 20 x 40 speaker off, of note is that it is fully sealed. I personally am not convinced this makes a huge difference with our tiny speakers, others sware by it I know.
As such, I would be very tempted to leave the hornby speker in place and just fit an additional base reflex speaker in the other 3 hornby sound fitted class 60 i have.
Having fitted both Base speakers I was to say the least blow back by the difference. Tons of lower base sound, well ok its much better.
Start stop with base reflex
I believe every project needs various testing to get the best speaker option (ie after lots of testing class 37 sound better with 2 x 23 ml in tanks as apposed to base reflex fitted in tanks) but without dought the Hornby 60 chip is vastly improved by the addition of the base reflex speaker. Best bit, remove the donut fan things and it was about 3 mins to install.
Hopefully you can hear the difference in the videos, take it from me if you have one of these 60 chips you need to add a base reflex!
Notching after base Reflex fitting (loads of fun)
Base reflex Horns
Air release and compressor on base reflex.
Taking the hornby fitted esu 20 x 40 speaker off, of note is that it is fully sealed. I personally am not convinced this makes a huge difference with our tiny speakers, others sware by it I know.
As such, I would be very tempted to leave the hornby speker in place and just fit an additional base reflex speaker in the other 3 hornby sound fitted class 60 i have.
Having fitted both Base speakers I was to say the least blow back by the difference. Tons of lower base sound, well ok its much better.
Start stop with base reflex
I believe every project needs various testing to get the best speaker option (ie after lots of testing class 37 sound better with 2 x 23 ml in tanks as apposed to base reflex fitted in tanks) but without dought the Hornby 60 chip is vastly improved by the addition of the base reflex speaker. Best bit, remove the donut fan things and it was about 3 mins to install.
Hopefully you can hear the difference in the videos, take it from me if you have one of these 60 chips you need to add a base reflex!
Notching after base Reflex fitting (loads of fun)
Base reflex Horns
Air release and compressor on base reflex.
Joined
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334 Posts
Right, quick re-write of review. If you want to swap bodies, you have to swap cabs too. ie the cabs from 60048 must be swapped with whatever 60 you are, er swapping with. Why did I not mention this earlier?
I had not realised i did it! I had the cabs out (not hard to do) to fit drivers and had swapped them by chance. on the second body swap i did, i too came across non working lights! Possibly hornby have swapped commons around?
Another funny thing spotted by Mick Bryan. If the loco is stopped and you notch up then notch down, if you leave f 9 "on" with controllers that can "latch" such as dynamis, the loco will not move when you give it throttle. It just stays in idle!
I had not realised i did it! I had the cabs out (not hard to do) to fit drivers and had swapped them by chance. on the second body swap i did, i too came across non working lights! Possibly hornby have swapped commons around?
Another funny thing spotted by Mick Bryan. If the loco is stopped and you notch up then notch down, if you leave f 9 "on" with controllers that can "latch" such as dynamis, the loco will not move when you give it throttle. It just stays in idle!
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334 Posts
I had every intention doing a comparison test tonight at our model railway club, I had four sound fitted classs 60 lined up, standrd hornby with the supplied omne speaker, hornby with twin base reflex, howes with base enhanced and 23 ml esu, olivia's mk 5 class 60 with twin base reflex. Plus a rake of 10 steel wagons to act as "load"!
Sadly it was more like old wifes club as the waffle that was going on would have drowned out a real class 60!
As such, i did not attempt u-tubing the 4 class 60 chips on Test. However, i can tell you that the best of the lot in a noisy enviroment was the standard class 60, as it comes out of the box with a single 20 x 40 speaker.
This is a simular result I have found with class 37 and 67 projects, in "show" enviroments the esu speakers are easier to hear than the Base reflex. Base reflex for home with dought on the hornby class 60, but I am now planning to add another 20 x 40 to the standard hornby class 60 set up and do a comparison on a quiter night at the club.
Anyway, what i observed with carefull driving was that the Hornby sound fitted class 60 is fairly pants put of the box, cv wise. It takes off like a bat out of hell and is otherwise notworking hard enough for a given sound. I will need to re do all cv for this at some point
The load of 10 x steel wagon was on so you had to imagine it needed to work hard to start its train. The hornby class 60 was outstanding. Press F 8=Notch up plus go to speed step 3 or 4 (28) and it really looked and sounded the part as it worked up the power and slowly set off, get to desired notch / engine pitch then hit very breifly the notch down button iether to hold the rpm where it was or now having got the train underway, back off and coast. superb.
Olivias was very good but again struggled to hear it in show enviroment so i may change speaker set up on this. Howes is still a good chip but is most definatly in 3rd place now with no notching.
Hopefully i can do vids on another nght.
Sadly it was more like old wifes club as the waffle that was going on would have drowned out a real class 60!
As such, i did not attempt u-tubing the 4 class 60 chips on Test. However, i can tell you that the best of the lot in a noisy enviroment was the standard class 60, as it comes out of the box with a single 20 x 40 speaker.
This is a simular result I have found with class 37 and 67 projects, in "show" enviroments the esu speakers are easier to hear than the Base reflex. Base reflex for home with dought on the hornby class 60, but I am now planning to add another 20 x 40 to the standard hornby class 60 set up and do a comparison on a quiter night at the club.
Anyway, what i observed with carefull driving was that the Hornby sound fitted class 60 is fairly pants put of the box, cv wise. It takes off like a bat out of hell and is otherwise notworking hard enough for a given sound. I will need to re do all cv for this at some point
The load of 10 x steel wagon was on so you had to imagine it needed to work hard to start its train. The hornby class 60 was outstanding. Press F 8=Notch up plus go to speed step 3 or 4 (28) and it really looked and sounded the part as it worked up the power and slowly set off, get to desired notch / engine pitch then hit very breifly the notch down button iether to hold the rpm where it was or now having got the train underway, back off and coast. superb.
Olivias was very good but again struggled to hear it in show enviroment so i may change speaker set up on this. Howes is still a good chip but is most definatly in 3rd place now with no notching.
Hopefully i can do vids on another nght.
Shame about that and the wife's club, but look at it this way their was plenty of interest and your club sounds alive.
I see you have come to the same conclusions as me the 20x40 lok is better generally that the Brass reflex in most applications. I wont say I told you so........
I can relate to that I bet you it took a bit of time to setup and it can get very frustrating when all you want is a bit of quietness in the room.
Try again
m
I see you have come to the same conclusions as me the 20x40 lok is better generally that the Brass reflex in most applications. I wont say I told you so........
I can relate to that I bet you it took a bit of time to setup and it can get very frustrating when all you want is a bit of quietness in the room.
Try again
m
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I think this is indicative of all "live sound" whereas it needs to be tailored for the particular environment that it is to be heard in. While Richard will be able to add a far more professional explanation here I liken it a bit to when I used to play in and produce a band. The amplification equipment we would use depended very much on the venue we were playing in (trial and error there unfortunately) and a fully functioning EQ unit with appropriate frequency response meter were used to determine the correct frequency response of the sound in a given environment.
There is no such thing as Generic Sound.
There is no such thing as Generic Sound.
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334 Posts
QUOTE (Martin71 @ 18 Feb 2009, 10:02) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Shame about that and the wife's club, but look at it this way their was plenty of interest and your club sounds alive.
I see you have come to the same conclusions as me the 20x40 lok is better generally that the Brass reflex in most applications. I wont say I told you so........
I can relate to that I bet you it took a bit of time to setup and it can get very frustrating when all you want is a bit of quietness in the room.
Try again
m
I would not say the 20 x 40 is better, in my 37 i prefere 2 x 23 ml round.
I much prefere the sound of the hornby fitted class 60 with base reflex at home, it knocks spots off the standard 20 x 40. However, just like my 67 sound chips, in a noisey enviroment, ie shows it struggled to be heard from more than 3 foot away. So now, do i turn the volume back up or fit 2 x 20 x 40? 20x40 will be first experiment!
I see you have come to the same conclusions as me the 20x40 lok is better generally that the Brass reflex in most applications. I wont say I told you so........
I can relate to that I bet you it took a bit of time to setup and it can get very frustrating when all you want is a bit of quietness in the room.
Try again
m
I would not say the 20 x 40 is better, in my 37 i prefere 2 x 23 ml round.
I much prefere the sound of the hornby fitted class 60 with base reflex at home, it knocks spots off the standard 20 x 40. However, just like my 67 sound chips, in a noisey enviroment, ie shows it struggled to be heard from more than 3 foot away. So now, do i turn the volume back up or fit 2 x 20 x 40? 20x40 will be first experiment!
QUOTE (Piemanlarger @ 12 Feb 2009, 19:56) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I had not realised i did it! I had the cabs out (not hard to do) to fit drivers and had swapped them by chance. on the second body swap i did, i too came across non working lights! Possibly hornby have swapped commons around?
Hi - just wondering if someone could help/confirm. I found this thread in a search on the forum for lights on a Hornby DCC Class 60...
I am doing a body swap (Territorial Army onto Hundred of Hoo chassis so I have DCC Sound TA) and the lights no longer work on either loco. I have carefully ensured the 4 copper strips are lifted/bent slightly to ensure contact when the body is replaced but to no avail.
Does any know if indeed Hornby change the circuiting etc between these models (though they were only around 6-9 months apart in release)
Any help appreciated
Thanks
Hi - just wondering if someone could help/confirm. I found this thread in a search on the forum for lights on a Hornby DCC Class 60...
I am doing a body swap (Territorial Army onto Hundred of Hoo chassis so I have DCC Sound TA) and the lights no longer work on either loco. I have carefully ensured the 4 copper strips are lifted/bent slightly to ensure contact when the body is replaced but to no avail.
Does any know if indeed Hornby change the circuiting etc between these models (though they were only around 6-9 months apart in release)
Any help appreciated
Thanks
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Yes. Swap the cab units with the contacts and lights as well and all will be well. I did this with my Mainline liveried 60 078, swapping the body and cab interiors with the EWS 60 048. I had to modify the under-silencer area to fit a bass reflex speaker but if you keep the Hornby speaker a few holes drilled into the silencer well should allow the sound out.
Thanks SRman - I still cannot work out why though as the light pcb board has the same markings and is listed as the same internal Part No on each of the Hornby Service Sheet pdfs for each loco.
It must be down to the wiring from the central pcb in each loco...unless its something to do with the ground circuit as someone mentioned somewhere. I have emailed Hornby for a definite comment...if I receive will post.
Its a hassle as the cabs are glued in with a big blob of white glue in each end. My Class 50 body swaps (DCC Ready NSE Dauntless body onto DCC Sound Illustrious were a doddle)
It must be down to the wiring from the central pcb in each loco...unless its something to do with the ground circuit as someone mentioned somewhere. I have emailed Hornby for a definite comment...if I receive will post.
Its a hassle as the cabs are glued in with a big blob of white glue in each end. My Class 50 body swaps (DCC Ready NSE Dauntless body onto DCC Sound Illustrious were a doddle)
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