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Hornby Surface Mounted Point Motor

9149 Views 16 Replies 11 Participants Last post by  craw
I read on the Big H forum that Hattons have the Hornby R8243 surface mounted point motor in stock.
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Do these (or any other cheaper surface mounted motors) work with Peco?
Well Peco came out with the surface mounted motor first. Unfortunately the Peco ones don't work that well - on Peco points. They need lots of amps and even then they don't do the job properly. I had to mount a second one in tandem with the first on one point.

I'm using the latest version of the MasterSwitch to control them so there is enough power. On these particular points, I can't easily fit slow action motors due to reduced space and I want to have multiple switches controlling these points from different control panels.

I hope the Hornby ones are better.
I cannot answer re Hornby side mounted motors working with Peco turnouts but I do use the Peco side mounted PM11 with Peco Code 75 turnouts with no problems at all. A CDU easily moves two at once & my Masterswitch V2 also moves 2 at once using a regulated 18v DC source.
Would it not assist the motors if the over centre spring was removed - it always strikes me as being far, far to stiff ?
I am using Peco side mounted points with Peco code 75 points, controlled through ESU SwitchPilots and in general they work well, the occasional one sticks which I think is down to poor alignment by me.The main problem I have is getting the actuator on the motor to stay on the tie bar of the point, I have resorted to glue! When talking to Peco at Warley they intimated that the surface motor was designed for code 100 and code 75 use is an after thought. With the SwitchPilot I do not uprate the switching as I can't workout how to reprogramme it!
QUOTE (Brian Considine @ 18 Dec 2008, 18:09) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Would it not assist the motors if the over centre spring was removed - it always strikes me as being far, far to stiff ?

Brian, the over-centre spring is still required to hold the blades against the stock rail as the motor itself has no locking facility.
It is possible to reduce the tension of the overcentre spring on peco points. The hooks that hold the spring block can be eased with a small screwdriver and the block eased backwards. The hooks can then be retightened with a squeeze with some pointy pliers. I have often adjusted the spring tension over many years to suit different point motors and situations. Re;leasin tensionmeans it needs less power and gives less of a thunk; the downside is that if the point contact is not good the current routing can suffer. As for making the peco side motor work with code 75 perhaps a piece of plasticard slipped under the point would lift it the fraction needed.
Not sure if it's any help but I'm using two of the Peco surface mounted motors with Hornby points, (both curved and straight) with no problems whatsoever, I also find them much quiter than my under point motors. I only use them where under point motors can't go, i.e. where I put the baseboard joints in the wrong place but I'm very happy with them.
QUOTE (Sol @ 18 Dec 2008, 09:58) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Brian, the over-centre spring is still required to hold the blades against the stock rail as the motor itself has no locking facility.

It was just a thought - maybe modify the spring then ?
Do the new-style Hornby surface mounted motors (or any other cheaper surface mounted motors) work with Peco turnouts?

I have to motorise a fair number of turnouts in the fiddleyard and the price difference is noticeable.

Received two of the new Hornby motors this morning.

I have 22 of the old surface motors operating on my layout with the old points.

The new motors relate very well with these and are actually 8mm shorter. Roughly same height and width, but much smoother.

The old motors used to just clip into the sleepers, and needed no fixing. The new ones have to be screwed down with two screws.

First problem - they are not screws that are supplied, they are bolts. (Have informed Hornby).

To test the unit, I had to use the screws from the large point motor that I had removed. They are slightly thicker and not countersunk.

Hornby have put an addendum slip in with the motors stating that screwing down the motor tightly can cause it to jam. This is correct.

There is virtually no tolerance available for an out of alignment point. It has to be perfectly flat, or the operating arm jams in the slot.

It may be a question of packing under the point to get it to operate correctly, or nailing down the point sleeper closest to the motor.

In operation I found it operated perfectly with plenty of power. Just a little less wham noise than the larger motors.

The problem with the supplied 'screws' , is not only are they bolts, but they are also very short.

The screws supplied for the larger motors have 6mm of screw available to go into the surface board. The new ones (if they were scews), have only 2.5mm.

So, someone has certainly 'screwed up' there. (sorry !!!).

I tested one of the motors on a Peco point. It as an old one though, and I do not know if they have changed much.
It has a very strong spring. much stronger than Hornby points.

The other problem was that the knob for connecting to the point operating arm is much thicker. The large Hornby motors have plenty of plastic to ream out the hole in the connecting rod, which I have done quite successfully on the three I use.

The new Hornby point cannot be reamed out - it is very thin plastic around the hole. So the answer was to file down the larger knob on the Peco point.
The sleepers at the slider bar also stick out further, and have to be trimmed back to get the Hornby point to fit up against the sleepers so that the operating arm can move correctly.
I also needed to pack some paper under the motor to get it to operate with the thicker slider bar.

The final result was that there was plenty of power to operate the Peco point.

I want to buy six more, but I need to find twelve 10mm long x 1.5mm dia. black countersunk screws.

Apart from the screws, they are a good buy and operate very well once all adjustments are made.

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I know that I referred to the need to keep the spring in the point to keep blades to stock rail but if one uses frog switching say by using the Heathcote Electronics Point indicator relay units, if the spring is removed, would there be enough locking within the Hornby side mounted motors to hold hand made points in place ( assuming hinged blades) ? I do not think the Peco units will do the trick.
I can see such a need on my small terminal station where fitting Tortoise will be almost an impossibility so side mounted motors maybe the way to go.
Purchased a couple of these Hornby side mounted point motors today, along with one of their (rather tacky looking, its definetly going below the baseboard) digital point decoders.

Referring to the screw issue, by the looks of it they have solved the problem by supplying 2 longer screws with the points.

My issue is that I'm using them with Peco points, had to file down the little sliding bar knob thing, aligned them nicely, programmed the decoder, got the motor to flick the point with an affirmative 'tock'. However tried to flick the point back (motor arm going into the body of the motor) it makes a noise but by the looks of it it doesn't have enough power to bring it back in!?!?

Read all the instructions that I was supplied, but nothing on this issue?

Any help would be much appreciated.


p.s. I'm using Gaugemaster prodigy advance2 DCC controller, if that helps?
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HI Bob
I use these type of surface motors and so far had no problems.
Although I am using the non DCC method which technically is of
no use to you.
What I was going to ask is the points in question move quite
freely before the motor is fitted.I also found that the motors may need a slight
adjustment to help them pull/throw points.
Hi Craw

Thanks for the reply.
Well I'm currently pulling my hair out at the moment, because the points are indeed free and not hindered in anyway on their own, and once I position the point motor they still work nicely no grating or such.

So I've ripped up the motors and trying to fire them without a point to move and they are still doing the same only firing nicely out and then a pathetic little movement inwards barely moving the arm! (and this is consistent with both motors)

I can only imagine that it is down to the prodigy controller because if they work one way surely they're getting the right power, but just not getting the right signal from the DCC gubbings?

Thanks again.

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Hi Bob
When I first fitted these I had some do the same problem
as you are getting.I fitted a CDU which solved the problem.
The point decoder could be your problem if I'm not mistaken
it has a built in CDU therefore what I'm wondering is your
power feed seperate from your controller as if not maybe not enough
power.Also is the Hornby controller compatable with the Prodigy as I
think there is a point decoder especially for the Prodigy going by
Gaugemasters web site.
Do'nt know if any of the above maybe of help.
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