Hornby T9 and Schools Class

QUOTE Hornby have let them self down big time on this loco

Have you actually tested or even seen this model? I have because it is currently circumnavigating my layout without any problems. It runs sweetly through reverse curves, never stalls on frogs and looks better than my Wills widecab T9.

Possibly, we need a little patience is needed before making comments about that which we know very little?

Anyway, the T9 is certainly worth the wait and I hope that you enjoy your models as much as I am watching it running on Cranborne.

Tim
Happy as a dog with two tails

Picked up my BR black DCC T9 yesterday. Looks great but will not move! Tried it DCC (address 03) and DC. Back to shop with it today.

QUOTE How come bachmann can make all thier locos without loco traction tyres , it seem to me Hornby have gone back to the 80's when the put traction tyres on all their locos

How many 4-4-0s are there in the Bachmann range?

4-4-0s and 0-4-4Ts are notoriously difficult to balance so that the weight actually rests on the driving wheels . Stuff the smokebox on a 4-4-0 with lead and you'll lift the drivers off the track.

As someone commented , the M7 - despite Hornby's best efforts - is not the world's best haulier. We did not have this issue in a previous generation because the last round of Hornby 4-4-0s in the 80s were tender drive, and I think the L1 had magnadhesion. Beyond that I'm struggling to think of any RTR 4mm 4-4-0s. There may not be many in HO either

I don't like traction tyres, but apparently this decision came after some practical tests , and I gather the decoder is in the tender , so Hornby may well have provided tender pickups? - something they've done on a lot of recent steam engines. That would address the pickup issue well enough

Before we lay into them too hard - how many other RTR 4-4-0s with extended smokeboxes and open cabs have been done rtr by any manufacturer? I'm not sure there's much in the way of engineering precedent for how you tackle this one, so saying "well X have done it for years" may not be applicable

I have a feeling other 4-4-0s like the Compounds, D49s, Schools, or even Directors, City of Truro and the like have more at the back (like roomy enclosed cabs) and less at the extreme front making them potentially easier to balance

QUOTE (72C @ 18 Dec 2008, 21:46) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Did I mention traction tyres? I merely cannot understand how anyone can dismiss anything based on prejudice rather than actual examination and testing.

It seems strange that you accuse me of focussing on the issue of traction tyres whilst my last post did not even refer to the issue. You inability to comprehend my post is only matched by your ability to insert text where none exists.

An apology is expected.

***

Hello Tim.

Please look more carefully at your own post.

You chose to not attribute it properly but you clearly quoted a final summary line from Torringtons post which was very specifically about traction tyres. To quote it literally in full

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Torrington, 10:59 yesterday

UP DATE ON THE T9

Just got off the phone to hornby and was told that the T9 would all be sold with traction tyres and would not have new wheel sets.
I have now stoped my order for the two i wanted!!! How come bachmann can make all thier locos with out loctraction tyres , it seem to me Hornby have gone back to the 80's when the put traction tyres on all their locos.
Have been waiting a long time for them to bring out the T9 and now they go and do this , i agree with Richard why the hell do you need to pull 25 choaches !!!!.
So why did they bother to put a metal body on in the first place , also having traction tyres will mean that the T9 will bounce along and how long will they last before you have to order new ones .
Hornby have let them self down big time on this loco

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You edited and removed attribution but used his last line literally. To quote your own post

"Hornby have let them self down big time on this loco"

Therefore you did indeed quite clearly allude to traction tyres, as that was the reason that line was originally posted.

Tim, I have absolutely no interest in arguing with you and was, in my post, both polite and specific - I happen to agree with him and have consistently stated any time they have been mentioned on list that to me, traction tyres are an abomination... however I did not dismiss or make negative comment about your acceptance of them or your loco - in fact I took the trouble to express pleasure that you were enjoying your new T9.

I will happily wish you a Merry Christmas but there is absolutely no need for apologies from anyone.

Regards

Richard

QUOTE (Ravenser @ 18 Dec 2008, 22:09) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I don't like traction tyres, but apparently this decision came after some practical tests , and I gather the decoder is in the tender , so Hornby may well have provided tender pickups? - something they've done on a lot of recent steam engines. That would address the pickup issue well enough

Before we lay into them too hard - how many other RTR 4-4-0s with extended smokeboxes and open cabs have been done rtr by any manufacturer? I'm not sure there's much in the way of engineering precedent for how you tackle this one, so saying "well X have done it for years" may not be applicable

I have a feeling other 4-4-0s like the Compounds, D49s, Schools, or even Directors, City of Truro and the like have more at the back (like roomy enclosed cabs) and less at the extreme front making them potentially easier to balance

*** Yes, that is in fact all quite reasonable: I do not think however that it precluded the provision of spare drivers, even if at extra cost, for those who do not like the tyres. It is a precedent that I so sincerely hope is not general on new loco's of any arrangement.

There are two quite simple ways to help balance on a 4-4-0 - using the tender as a balancing weight on the drawbar and using a simple balance beam between front bogie and front driver to transfer weight towards the rear. Both are low cost and extremely simple engineering and would still work on second radius curves.

The balance beam would also help the bogie to track realistically and its use in combination with the front driver would actually have further improved pickup and would have significantly aided traction without real added cost compared to the need or complication of grooving drivers and creating/stocking tyres too.

In the end whats done is done: Providing others have the same positive experience as Tim, given the quality of the loco in other areas and the time saved compared to a full kit build, I will probably eventually buy the T9 as is and simply make a whole new chassis, leaving those happy with tyres to enjoy it as it is.

kind regards

Richard

The T9 is a wonderful looking loco. Well done to Hornby for pursuing it. If you don't like or want the traction tyres folks, re-wheel the thing! Yes, I know it's expensive, but what else can one do? The model is out of my area so not of interest, but that would be my approach. Revert to tender drives - again? Motor in the tender driving the loco wheels? Anything is possible - their Chinese engineers are clearly very good indeed - but what they've done has kept price and complexity within reasonable limits. I think if H produced the model without tyres and it pulled, say, 3 or 4 coaches on the flat, there would be even more complaints. Odd that they bothered to tool a metal boiler and still went for traction tyres - the boiler solution alone evidently didn't work. Incidentally, I have one of their LMS liveried Caley singles and it too has traction tyres on its drivers - presumably to compensate for the lack of magnadhesion the originals had - and it works really well. I guess the tyres just don't grate so much on a 60's Tri-ang model as they do on today's super detail stuff.