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QUOTE Hornby have let them self down big time on this loco

Have you actually tested or even seen this model? I have because it is currently circumnavigating my layout without any problems. It runs sweetly through reverse curves, never stalls on frogs and looks better than my Wills widecab T9.

Possibly, we need a little patience is needed before making comments about that which we know very little?

Anyway, the T9 is certainly worth the wait and I hope that you enjoy your models as much as I am watching it running on Cranborne.

Tim
Happy as a dog with two tails
 

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Picked up my BR black DCC T9 yesterday. Looks great but will not move! Tried it DCC (address 03) and DC. Back to shop with it today.
 

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*** Tim, why should we need to see it - looking at it will not vapourise the traction tyres! I simply do not comprehend your post... which part about not wanting it to have traction tyres do Sol, Torrington or I have to have patience about.

I'm genuinely pleased you are happy with your purchase but one mans meat is anothers poison, I (we) object to the presence of traction tyres on the loco and I for one will undoubtedly replace the wheels if I buy one.

Nobody has criticised the loco on anything other than this point, which is both valid as a subject for on list comment and important to those who mentioned it.

As I said, I'm pleased yours runs well and you are happy with it, but as it is, it could jump through hoops on your layout and it would still be totally unacceptable on mine. Its all about personal choices and preferences.

regards

Richard
 

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QUOTE Tim, why should we need to see it - looking at it will not vapourise the traction tyres! I simply do not comprehend your post...

Did I mention traction tyres? I merely cannot understand how anyone can dismiss anything based on prejudice rather than actual examination and testing.

It seems strange that you accuse me of focussing on the issue of traction tyres whilst my last post did not even refer to the issue. You inability to comprehend my post is only matched by your ability to insert text where none exists.

An apology is expected.
 

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QUOTE How come bachmann can make all thier locos without loco traction tyres , it seem to me Hornby have gone back to the 80's when the put traction tyres on all their locos

How many 4-4-0s are there in the Bachmann range?

4-4-0s and 0-4-4Ts are notoriously difficult to balance so that the weight actually rests on the driving wheels . Stuff the smokebox on a 4-4-0 with lead and you'll lift the drivers off the track.

As someone commented , the M7 - despite Hornby's best efforts - is not the world's best haulier. We did not have this issue in a previous generation because the last round of Hornby 4-4-0s in the 80s were tender drive, and I think the L1 had magnadhesion. Beyond that I'm struggling to think of any RTR 4mm 4-4-0s. There may not be many in HO either

I don't like traction tyres, but apparently this decision came after some practical tests , and I gather the decoder is in the tender , so Hornby may well have provided tender pickups? - something they've done on a lot of recent steam engines. That would address the pickup issue well enough

Before we lay into them too hard - how many other RTR 4-4-0s with extended smokeboxes and open cabs have been done rtr by any manufacturer? I'm not sure there's much in the way of engineering precedent for how you tackle this one, so saying "well X have done it for years" may not be applicable

I have a feeling other 4-4-0s like the Compounds, D49s, Schools, or even Directors, City of Truro and the like have more at the back (like roomy enclosed cabs) and less at the extreme front making them potentially easier to balance
 

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QUOTE (72C @ 18 Dec 2008, 21:46) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Did I mention traction tyres? I merely cannot understand how anyone can dismiss anything based on prejudice rather than actual examination and testing.

It seems strange that you accuse me of focussing on the issue of traction tyres whilst my last post did not even refer to the issue. You inability to comprehend my post is only matched by your ability to insert text where none exists.

An apology is expected.

***

Hello Tim.

Please look more carefully at your own post.

You chose to not attribute it properly but you clearly quoted a final summary line from Torringtons post which was very specifically about traction tyres. To quote it literally in full

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Torrington, 10:59 yesterday

UP DATE ON THE T9

Just got off the phone to hornby and was told that the T9 would all be sold with traction tyres and would not have new wheel sets.
I have now stoped my order for the two i wanted!!! How come bachmann can make all thier locos with out loctraction tyres , it seem to me Hornby have gone back to the 80's when the put traction tyres on all their locos.
Have been waiting a long time for them to bring out the T9 and now they go and do this , i agree with Richard why the hell do you need to pull 25 choaches !!!!.
So why did they bother to put a metal body on in the first place , also having traction tyres will mean that the T9 will bounce along and how long will they last before you have to order new ones .
Hornby have let them self down big time on this loco

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You edited and removed attribution but used his last line literally. To quote your own post

"Hornby have let them self down big time on this loco"

Therefore you did indeed quite clearly allude to traction tyres, as that was the reason that line was originally posted.

Tim, I have absolutely no interest in arguing with you and was, in my post, both polite and specific - I happen to agree with him and have consistently stated any time they have been mentioned on list that to me, traction tyres are an abomination... however I did not dismiss or make negative comment about your acceptance of them or your loco - in fact I took the trouble to express pleasure that you were enjoying your new T9.

I will happily wish you a Merry Christmas but there is absolutely no need for apologies from anyone.

Regards

Richard
 

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QUOTE (Ravenser @ 18 Dec 2008, 22:09) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I don't like traction tyres, but apparently this decision came after some practical tests , and I gather the decoder is in the tender , so Hornby may well have provided tender pickups? - something they've done on a lot of recent steam engines. That would address the pickup issue well enough

Before we lay into them too hard - how many other RTR 4-4-0s with extended smokeboxes and open cabs have been done rtr by any manufacturer? I'm not sure there's much in the way of engineering precedent for how you tackle this one, so saying "well X have done it for years" may not be applicable

I have a feeling other 4-4-0s like the Compounds, D49s, Schools, or even Directors, City of Truro and the like have more at the back (like roomy enclosed cabs) and less at the extreme front making them potentially easier to balance

*** Yes, that is in fact all quite reasonable: I do not think however that it precluded the provision of spare drivers, even if at extra cost, for those who do not like the tyres. It is a precedent that I so sincerely hope is not general on new loco's of any arrangement.

There are two quite simple ways to help balance on a 4-4-0 - using the tender as a balancing weight on the drawbar and using a simple balance beam between front bogie and front driver to transfer weight towards the rear. Both are low cost and extremely simple engineering and would still work on second radius curves.

The balance beam would also help the bogie to track realistically and its use in combination with the front driver would actually have further improved pickup and would have significantly aided traction without real added cost compared to the need or complication of grooving drivers and creating/stocking tyres too.

In the end whats done is done: Providing others have the same positive experience as Tim, given the quality of the loco in other areas and the time saved compared to a full kit build, I will probably eventually buy the T9 as is and simply make a whole new chassis, leaving those happy with tyres to enjoy it as it is.

kind regards

Richard
 

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So what would you recommend, The T9's are in the shops I've had a good look at 729 and am tempted by it, it looks a stunning model, but yes I'm not keen on the dreaded Traction Tyres, having got rid of all my old Hornby 80's and 90's stock a while ago now.
I want to haul rakes of six, which my M7 can't do without a Terrier banking, apparently the T9 will do this with ease.
So my dilemma is to go with the T9 with the TT's or just get the equally as nice King Arthur "Etarre".
What would you choose if you could only have one or the other?

Happy Christmas!
 

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Been thinking about this again, if the T9 needs a metal boiler and traction tyres to haul a load then what is the Schools going to be like, if my thinkings right then it hasn't got a metal boiler so will presumably be lighter. Are Hornby going to fit Traction Tyres to this as well?
 

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Its not just Hornby, its Bachmann & Heljan & Murphy Models too. Most things are well over one month late. The new Heljan 0 Gauge Class 37s have just arrived with most stockist in the last 7 days, all thr Heljan Cargo flats have been delivered with the Class 17s & Bachmann/Murphy models stuff due during January. China has big delivery & production problems. Also I believe there has been problems with some of the New Hornby 'Sound' Dutchess Pacifics too! Hornbys HSTs should be all delivered by now excluding the Grand Central One, all the batch I got have had the Braks Van windows fall out!!!!. A bit of glue though easily solves that problem. Charlie DC Kits
 

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QUOTE (Mike Button @ 18 Dec 2008, 18:27) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Been thinking about this again, if the T9 needs a metal boiler and traction tyres to haul a load then what is the Schools going to be like, if my thinkings right then it hasn't got a metal boiler so will presumably be lighter. Are Hornby going to fit Traction Tyres to this as well?
Not according to the Hornby Service sheets at
http://static.hornby.com/files/hss-330b-schools-class-446.pdf
I guess with larger diameter boiler they've been able to stuff it with weight especially as the decoder is in the tender. All wheels have pick-ups.
Brgds
Tony
 

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QUOTE (21C164 @ 18 Dec 2008, 21:18) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Not according to the Hornby Service sheets at
http://static.hornby.com/files/hss-330b-schools-class-446.pdf
I guess with larger diameter boiler they've been able to stuff it with weight especially as the decoder is in the tender. All wheels have pick-ups.
Brgds
Tony

Thanks for that, how does that alter the balance as mentioned in previous posts, I'm not knocking your answer, just curious that's all.
 

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The T9 is a wonderful looking loco. Well done to Hornby for pursuing it. If you don't like or want the traction tyres folks, re-wheel the thing! Yes, I know it's expensive, but what else can one do? The model is out of my area so not of interest, but that would be my approach. Revert to tender drives - again? Motor in the tender driving the loco wheels? Anything is possible - their Chinese engineers are clearly very good indeed - but what they've done has kept price and complexity within reasonable limits. I think if H produced the model without tyres and it pulled, say, 3 or 4 coaches on the flat, there would be even more complaints. Odd that they bothered to tool a metal boiler and still went for traction tyres - the boiler solution alone evidently didn't work. Incidentally, I have one of their LMS liveried Caley singles and it too has traction tyres on its drivers - presumably to compensate for the lack of magnadhesion the originals had - and it works really well. I guess the tyres just don't grate so much on a 60's Tri-ang model as they do on today's super detail stuff.
 

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HI
I have heard that the new schools and the castle will both be fitted with Traction Tyres!!!! .with the T9 fitted with them why could they have made the sub frames from meatel ,this would have given the loco a lot more Traction .
Or will this over heat the five pole moters they fit to thier loco's ,as a friend of mine put a bit more weight in his M7 and the moter brunt out!!!!
If this is true and Hornby put Traction Tyres on all of their range then i for one will not bother with them.
As i have been buying hornby since i was a kid (42 now) they will lose valued customer.
I find it a bit funny that thier was no mentiom of them putting Traction Tyres on the T9 per to it being sold.
So how many of you would have still got it if you had know this per to placing your order!!!
This is only my opinion on the T9, so don't get to upset .
Darren
 

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I would be extremely surprised if there were any traction tyres on the Castle and the service sheet for the Schools seems to show untyred wheels

We will see how well the T9 does or does not sell fairly soon- if it doesn't sell well, bargains will doubtless be available from Hattons in due course.

As for other locos , it is a little premature to speculate on unannounced rubber additions on other models or general policy across the range , though I think we can be reasonably confident that the 60, the 31, and the new HST will not suddenly acquire tyres
 

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Agreed Darren, nothing on the Hornby Website against R2711 T9 about having traction tyres & nothing on Hattons site either. It maybe detailed in the Service sheets but if you ordered from a dealer ( & not having Internet access) - you would not know until it turned up.
Then see if you can return it?
 

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My friend's Drummond arrived yesterday. He put a Silver decoder in and with the tender still off it ran well wherever on his layout. Back on with the tender and it stuck at some points and at a point where the layout nas a very very slight incline into his station. His first examination seemed to show that when the fallplate is on the tender it fits so snugly onto the tender that the loco will only work on the straight and level or on a very slight curve. Has anyone else hit a similar problem? He is conducting further tests today preparatory to contacting Hornby just in case there is something he has missed. Any suggestions?
 

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QUOTE (1ngram @ 19 Dec 2008, 15:05) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>My friend's Drummond arrived yesterday. He put a Silver decoder in and with the tender still off it ran well wherever on his layout. Back on with the tender and it stuck at some points and at a point where the layout nas a very very slight incline into his station. His first examination seemed to show that when the fallplate is on the tender it fits so snugly onto the tender that the loco will only work on the straight and level or on a very slight curve. Has anyone else hit a similar problem? He is conducting further tests today preparatory to contacting Hornby just in case there is something he has missed. Any suggestions?
As a matter of curiosity - how did he run it without the tender as that's where the chip is?
Rgds
Tony
 

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Sorry, I meant without the tender body having been replaced.

He seems to have narrowed down the problem to the fall plate. So tight is the connection between it and the tender that when the incline is reached the tender rises which then, via the fall plate, is lifting the loco's driving wheels which when it stops are left spinning (or at keast enough of them are to halt the loc). I suppose he could carefully remove a little off the bottom of the fall plate so that it is not so affected by the tender but he thinks that by lengthening the connecting "dumbell" between loco and tender he can solve the problem.
 
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