Hornby Track Plan Book 2007

I would like to see more variety which they started last time such a modular, round the room, dumbell etc. with suggested industries and the like. I have most of their past planbooks and it's interesting to see how the emphasis changes over the years.

QUOTE (Peter_Harvey @ 30 Aug 2006, 11:55) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>It would be nice if Hornby Could do some track plans of real places using there standard track or as close as rather than fictitious stations routes depots?

Peter

But if you're intending to base your layout on a real location the first thing to do is ditch their standard track with its 'toy train set' track spacing and geometry...

Hornby's track plan books have always been unashamedly aimed at the 'train set' end of the market,with emphasis on play value and their range of track packs,-let's face it,-it's the last place a serious modeller looking for fidelity to an actual prototype would look for inspiration..

Moving away from the Hornby track plans is probably the first step to railway modelling 'maturity'..

QUOTE Moving away from the Hornby track plans is probably the first step to railway modelling 'maturity'..

Boy amd I thought I was harsh ...

QUOTE (neil_s_wood @ 31 Aug 2006, 00:42) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Real modelling as I see it is trying to recreate a place, whether real or fictional, as a scale model. Hornby and Peco track plans are very much extensions of the train set mentality as they create unrealistic layouts. The radius one curves are unrealistic and useless for most trains. My American locos and coaches can't even make it round radius three curves. Horses for courses though, the track plans do give ideas and food for thought for the beginner and you need to learn somewhere so maybe more advice on baseboards and creating different levels and things wouldn't go amiss. Also some problem solving advice for commonly encountered issues.

Thankyou Neil

The track plan books are there to inspire people to what can be achieved say for instance a first time modeller goes to the SVR for a day out travels the line thinks "I would love to build one of these stations as a layout but I havern`t got the space" then he looks at the Hornby track plan book and they show that you can build a SVR station in a small space and using there buildings, platforms and track.
That mean that the modeller gets his layout, hornby get a new customer and the hobby gets another person to keep the hobby going.

Of course you carn`t build complex layouts of real places with set track but it can inspire to build which is the main thing.

Peter

Interesting comment there from one or two members about train set mentality.

Without sounding defensive I admit to having a train set mentality and it would be fantastic if MRF had more active members who simply like to play trains on their train set and have fun!

And it has to be said that whilst model railway exhibitions have good well modelled layouts on show, the stands that have the largest crowds and with crowds that watch the longest are those stands who have train set type layouts!

The fact is train set layouts always seem to have more activity with several trains operating at a time and if this is train set mentality then fantastic!

And if the Hornby Track Plan Book 2007 offers plans, that when combined with Hornby Digital, permit 4 or 5 trains to operate at the same time on clever well designed smallish layouts then this will be a massive step forward for the train set modeller.

Happy modelling
Gary

PS I often think that DCC experts have a train set mentality as it is the technical side of the hobby that interests them more than the modelling side. DCC experts more often than not have relatively poor modelling skills and are very happy to go with the train set mentality flow when it comes to the appearance of their layout!

QUOTE PS I often think that DCC experts have a train set mentality as it is the technical side of the hobby that interests them more than the modelling side. DCC experts more often than not have relatively poor modelling skills and are very happy to go with the train set mentality flow when it comes to the appearance of their layout!

I think this a very unfair comment. Don't generalise please

Gary, Gary, Gary you need to get out more. In the US 90% of the top modelers use DCC I would guess. If you made that remark out here they would drop kick you back to the UK.

If anything I would think the oposite is true. Or at least it is in the United States.

QUOTE (Gary @ 31 Aug 2006, 09:51) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>And it has to be said that whilst model railway exhibitions have good well modelled layouts on show, the stands that have the largest crowds and with crowds that watch the longest are those stands who have train set type layouts!

Without wishing to pigeonhole people, generally speaking those crowds around these layouts consist in the main of kids with parents/grandparents in attendance,many of whom only have a passing interest in railways and appreciate the layout for its entertainment value,-something to keep the young 'uns amused,[nothing wrong in that BTW,this isn't a criticism] and also newcommers to the world of railways who only have a rudimentary knowledge of the prototype.

I think you'll find that those more seriously into the hobby,who know a bit more about real railways and their operation, or are modellers,[maybe in different fields] are spectators of the layouts that are based on a more prototypical scenario..[and that doesn't mean to say they can't have lots of loco or train movements going on]

I attended the Nottingham Bullwell show earlier this year,and the most popular layout there,with a constant viewing audience all weekend was 'Wibdenshaw',-a 'crowd pleaser' that's as about as far removed from a trainset as you can get..

QUOTE I often think that DCC experts have a train set mentality as it is the technical side of the hobby that interests them more than the modelling side. DCC experts more often than not have relatively poor modelling skills and are very happy to go with the train set mentality flow when it comes to the appearance of their layout!

I'm sorry,-but I'm with Makemineadouble on this one,I'm involved with a club 'EM' gauge layout that we are going to be wiring up to DCC standards,-and that definately isn't 'shake the box' trainset stuff....

Gary if you base your observations on personal experience then by all means you need to broaden your experiences. Your comments on DCC and modelling are In fact I fell off my chair when I first read them. I don't want to seem like I am attacking but you need to stop these insane generalizations. It is not becoming.

QUOTE then by all means you need to broaden your experiences

When it comes to DCC I totally agree that I do. My experiance is limited to the UK.

Maybe its as a result of being more interested in the modelling side than DCC. I do feel that those layouts that have been built with a DCC set up have a more toy like appearance.

Judging from that Model Railroad TV series the folk in the USA seem to operate largely with toy like layouts.

Maybe the way the Americans and the British "do" railway modelling is somewhat different.

I am not talking club layouts here but layouts produced by individuals. Clubs will have areas of expertise in all aspects of the hobby and so it is possible to put your best modeller on the scenery and your best technician on the chassis to create a wonder layout.

The good thing about the Hornby Track Plans Book 2007 is that it will help every Hornby modeller to create fantastic DCC layouts that will be interesting to operate and that also look good.

Happy modelling
Gary

I would agree with most of the above re Gary's comments on DCC and modelling. There is room for all sorts in the modelling world. But train sets are where people start out when they are kids or not seriously interested in the hobby. It is a starting point. I think you can guess by the discussion on most of this forum that most of us have gone beyond this.
QUOTE The fact is train set layouts always seem to have more activity with several trains operating at a time and if this is train set mentality then fantastic!

I have several trains running at one time and I would not describe my layout as a train set.

QUOTE DCC experts more often than not have relatively poor modelling skills and are very happy to go with the train set mentality flow when it comes to the appearance of their layout!

I am astonished you thought you would get away with that.
The only DCC layouts I have seen that fit this description are the demo layouts.

QUOTE Maybe its as a result of being more interested in the modelling side than DCC. I do feel that those layouts that have been built with a DCC set up have a more toy like appearance.
To be honest my preference is for modelling scenery and buildings as opposed to rolling stock which I buy rtr but I use DCC. I don't think you can generalise on this in such a varied hobby.

QUOTE Judging from that Model Railroad TV series the folk in the USA seem to operate largely with toy like layouts.

Maybe thats because the country they are modelling is more toy like. only kidding.

QUOTE Judging from that Model Railroad TV series the folk in the USA seem to operate largely with toy like layouts.

This just shows that you need to get out more. If I were to base my perception of England on English TV that is shown in the United States I would think that every middle-aged Englishman was either effete, or went by the name of Captain Peacock and all of your women colored their hair blue after reaching a certain age. After travelling to England a dozen times I found this only half true.

These shows are often created by people who know nothing of trains so they already have a preconceived notion of grown men playing with trains. In the United States there is a reasonable sector of the hobby that do play with Toy Trains that are actually quite expensive antiques. But by enlarge the vast majority model in HO similar to the layouts in Model Railroader if you ever bothered to look at the magazine but maybe not quite so grand. Every club layout that I have ever visited is closer to the Model Railroader ideal than your toy train layouts which are more the playground of single rich collectors.

These generalizations are really tiresome and serve no useful purpose. I'm sorry but this narrow mindedness makes me really angry.

Believe it or not people run large layouts in the United States. Their houses are large, their cars are large and their women are large. It's just the way it is here and these large layout require cab control, that's the reason for early adoption of DCC. It required fewer operators for a given number of trains. Toy Trains are expensive collector items that require a certain amout of wealth to setup. They form a small but important segment because of the money that is floating around but are not that common to come across in your daily travels of layout visits. What is shown on your TV is NOT representative. Do I make myself clear?

I agree completely with Dennis.

Gary, you need to go to the newsagents and get a copy of Model Railroader and look at some American layouts. There is nothing toylike about them. I actually find the attention to detail in America very high, in fact almost pedantic.
Your statement was guaranteed to get a reaction. If we want to avoid taking this forum into the depths of some other ones it may be best to avoid deliberately inflammatory statements.

Like Dennis says you can't base your impressions of US modelling on one programme especially one which is aimed at those just emerging from the equivelant of the Hornby train set mentality.

Now please don't take this as an attack on hobby train sets. If you had compared this to Germany then I would have agreed with you. Even their large show layouts are nothing but hobby train sets on steroids. There seeing trains run and using set track is very popular. But those are not as popular in the States amongst more experienced modellers. In the United States you are given a train set when you are younger but as you progress you probably will toss it. In Germany you won't toss it but extend it with additional track packs. This might be closer to what you are envisioning. That's awesome.

I use set track though my layout is a little different simply because I don't want to mess with it. I use Fleischmann track, points and point motors. I don't want to deal with a lot of separate pieces when it comes to track. But when I build a layout it always has complete scenery, built to the best of my ability.

Don't defend one aspect of the hobby by attacking another. It just weakens your own position. You like to purchase trains and see them run once in a while on a temporary layout if I'm not mistaken. I don't think I have ever attacked that or at least I am not aware of it and that's awesome. I do the same with slot cars.

Hey just so everybody is clear I only stay angry for about 5 minutes. Because we are from different countries there will be misconceptions on all sides. Hopefully this forum will work to clear that up and we can learn to respect each other.

I wish we had some experience modellers from Germany to tell us a little more as my information such as it is is limited to my 4 years living there and bi-annual trips.

QUOTE Don't defend one aspect of the hobby by attacking another. It just weakens your own position. You like to purchase trains and see them run once in a while on a temporary layout if I'm not mistaken. I don't think I have ever attacked that or at least I am not aware of it and that's awesome. I do the same with slot cars.

I think attacking different aspects of the hobby undermines the whole basis of railway modelling, which is that it it is a multi faceted, multi skilled hobby. We all have different areas of modelling and technology skilling that we focus on just as we focus on different eras and nationalities. We will obviously prioritise these due to our preferences and ability. This what is good about railway modelling, it's very varied and you can focus on whatever aspect takes your fancy regardless of how baffling it is to others.

I do the same with slot cars too.