Hornby's ex-Lima Mk3 HST TGS

But TGS never had buffers, so no one should like buffers fitted to their model

I was not expecting a complete rehash of the Lima model, but I would have expected Hornby to get the shade of grey to grey to match their existing stock.

Rather suspect Hornby have a lot on at the moment and have maybe taken their eye off the ball in the rush to get things out........

Ficticious livery on 121 dmu
Missing air horn grill on 67
Wrong colouring on TGS

Russell

QUOTE (Guest @ 24 Nov 2006, 10:00) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Surely its not hard for Hornby to realise after 3 decades that HST coaches do not have buffers so why would you want to fit buffers to an HST model? Why include detail which should never be there in the first place? And why after spending good money on any model should the modeller need to correct a whole list of errors, especially on a coach which is supposed to fit in with the rest of the formation. Its just a rush job with very sloppy research.

I sense some sensationalist 'manufacturer bashing' starting here!

Yes, it is correct that HST MKIII's do not have buffers. But don't forget that at certain times in history, MKIII's were run as loco hauled (eg by class 86/87 from Euston to Scotland) and did have buffers.
Modellers tend to mix and match coaches for either type of formation, so manufacturers have a bit of a dilema.
Really, I can't see what all the fuss is about - it doesn't take much effort to remove buffers with a craft knife.

Graham Plowman

From the various reviews I've seen and the comments made on these poages, it seems that Hornby have indeed made an in-excuseable amount of mistakes with their BR blue and grey ex-Lima TGS coach.

I'm not sure why people are defending Hornby on the buffers issue. HST vehicles were not built with buffers fitted. It is only due to special conversions for particular puposes over the years that a few vehicles have received buffers. Generally most HSTs do not typically have buffers. So then why do some modellers want the option of having them only to say it's easy to cut them off!? - I really don't understand this. It seems petty to argue over detail which shouldn't be there in the first place.
Hornby should have removed the buffers from their Lima tooling. In fact they should have produced their own tooling in the first place. Mis-matching of rolling stock is just not acceptable these days. I think Hornby have made more than enough profit over the last 30 years from their toy HST to finally put the money towards producing a decent model. Or at least making their own TGS rather than using somebody elses.

Another thing I don't get is why some people say it is nit-picking when highlighting errors on models - not just the whole HST subject but any model. I say that if you are paying for a detailed accurate scale model then surely it is reasonable to expect some accuracy and correct detail!
For those who moan and gripe at the 'rivet counters' why don't you shut up and watch your clock-work train go round the living room carpet if that's what your happy with. If you hadn't noticed it is now the 21st century and manufacturers have never had such a wealth of reference to reasearch. There are thousands of good pictures on the internet of all sorts of locos and rolling stock in all sorts of liveries. Not to mention the technology available in computer aided design etc.
It's not the 1970s any more and these days it should be perfectly reasonable to expect a model that doesn't have silly mistakes and completely ficticious detail.
For those who want to play with toys - fine play with your toys if that is what you're content with, there is nothing wrong with that. For those of us who want our scale models not to include careless errors there is nothing wrong with that either. With all the information and technology at their disposal not to mention the cheaper Chinese labour, the manufactures have absolutely no excuse these days to produce sub-standard models.
Back to the HST then.
Nothing wrong with a toy HST.
Nothing wrong with a model HST.
But not the horrible hotch-potch offering from Hornby.

The Tourist Open coaches are OK.
The buffet car could be better.
The TGS - well we've already been through that!
All the coaches would be better if the correct colour seating was used.
The Power cars are still 1970s toys.
The HST - Inter-City 125 Train is 30 years old and Hornby are still making a mess of it. Defend that. Come on let's hear you!

QUOTE For those who moan and gripe at the 'rivet counters' why don't you shut up and watch your clock-work train go round the living room carpet if that's what your happy with. If you hadn't noticed it is now the 21st century and manufacturers have never had such a wealth of reference to reasearch. There are thousands of good pictures on the internet of all sorts of locos and rolling stock in all sorts of liveries. Not to mention the technology available in computer aided design etc.
It's not the 1970s any more and these days it should be perfectly reasonable to expect a model that doesn't have silly mistakes and completely ficticious detail.
For those who want to play with toys - fine play with your toys if that is what you're content with, there is nothing wrong with that. For those of us who want our scale models not to include careless errors there is nothing wrong with that either. With all the information and technology at their disposal not to mention the cheaper Chinese labour, the manufactures have absolutely no excuse these days to produce sub-standard models.
Back to the HST then.
Nothing wrong with a toy HST.
Nothing wrong with a model HST.
But not the horrible hotch-potch offering from Hornby. Could you imagine what would happen if we got this guy on the DCC threads

I dont think the brand will suffer too much from a few missed peices of detail and livery errors. Correct me if I am wrong but I would guess that a large proportion of Hornby's model rail business is people who want to 'play trains' on a train set?
The general public who know very little about railways probably don't give a monkeys about detail discrepancies if they are buying model trains for their kids to play with. And for these people the first stop will be Hornby because it is synonymous with train sets and the only brand they have heard of.
Obviously this has done no favours for the more serious modeller in the past because Hornby have rested on this fact and have known they can get away with producing mediocre or poor models that will sell.
However poor the detail has been the strength and robustness of the models has always been good - indeed the ones I used to play with suffered derailments from the baseboard above my bed to the floor with very little to no damage at all!
The most irritating thing has been Hornby's use of 'licence' and fiction which they continue to do to this day. This time with their Mk4 DVT masquerading as a Mk3.
Hornby need two things (or rather we do!):
To clearly define and separate the more basic items in their range and aim them at a more suitable 'starter' market with a realistic and appropriate price tag.
More competition from other manufacturers who are going to produce highly detailed models aimed squarely at serious modellers.
The HST offering from Hornby is an uncomfortable compromise with its miss-matched TGS coach and toy Power cars.
I know they will be introducing the ex-Lima Power cars this year and I feel this is most welcome for two reasons.
Firstly, they have little in the way of fine detail which can easily break and are far more pleasing to the eye than their current model which looks awkward and chunky.
Secondly this now opens the door for other manufacturers such as Bachmann, Dapol or Heljan to make high specification Power Cars with a range of correctly detailed and appropriate Mk3 coaches both loco hauled and HST versions.
Bachmann already have a good range of detailed BR Mk1 and Mk2 coaches. A detailed BR Mk3 in all its variations would complement this range nicely.
Some loco-hauled trains would have run with all three coach types in the formation. For example: Mk1 BG, Air-con and non-aircon Mk2 coaches and Mk3 buffet.
An HST with highly detailed Power Cars AND coaches is long over-due. As are correctly portrayed loco-hauled Mk3 coaches.

Old Lima steamers would be a good idea for the younger market as there are less fragile parts. The same goes for the Diesel locos. Some of these older more basic models have a robust playability factor about them.
Likewise acurate models with fine detail satisfy the more serious modeller who are prepared to spend extra for more authenticity.
I think models such as the old Hornby class 25 and Lima class 47 diesel locos still look fairly good and are basic enough to stand up to a few knocks without small peices falling off or getting broken.
If Hornby tweaked their class 37 with better nose ends and windscreens and correct bogies (as these have always been the main detractions of the model) they could justify getting a few more years out of it. Or maybe they'll replace it altogether with the ex-Lima one?
As for the old Lima steam locos I can't remember what they produced - was one of them a GWR King?