[Ruffnut Thorston]

Hi.

Another small point.

The Powered cars were not originally in the Loco Class list. The trains were considered DMUs.

The Western Region sets were class 253 (The prototype being Class 252). The East Coast sets (which were the longer ones IIRC) were Class 254.

In practice, the powere cars tended to get swapped around. In fact I once saw two sets in Paddington, both with the same set number displayed.

This practice led to the understandable decision to put the powered cars into the Loco Class list. Hence Class 43. (I wonder if it was a Western Region decision, hence the use of the Warship's Class number?)

I hope this is of interest.

 

[7113]

It is also interesting to note that the prototype (class 252) was given class number 41 for the power cars before the 253/254 came into being. I think the class numbers were used as they were, at the time, the only type 4 class numbers available.

Regards

 

[Mike Wild]

Good point and interesting too. Also worth noting is that Class 43 was previously allocated to the North British built Warship diesel hydraulics (although they never carried TOPS numbers with last being withdrawn in 1971). Similarly, Class 41, allocated to the prototype HST set, was original set aside for the original NBL built A1A-A1A Warships, but again all were withdrawn by December 1967 leaving Class 41 open.

Mike

 

[7113]

QUOTE (Mike Wild @ 7 Jan 2009, 10:15) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Also worth noting is that Class 43 was previously allocated to the North British built Warship diesel hydraulics (although they never carried TOPS numbers with last being withdrawn in 1971).

I thought that the last of the Warships soldiered on until early '72, or was that the Swindon built class 42?

Regards

 

[Greg H]

At last, a serious subject - diesel hydraulics. Class 41s (D600s) were introduced (D600 Active) on 24/1/1958 and the all were withdrawn on the same day 30/12/1967, Class 42 (Swindon built D800s) first introduced (D800 Sir Brian Robertson) on 11/8/1958 and the last withdrawn (D832 Onslaught) on 16/12/1972 and Class 43 (NBL built D800s) first introduced (D833 Panther) on 6/7/1960 and last withdrawn (16 locomotives on the same day) on 3/10/1971.
As for the HSTs being numbered Class 41 and Class 43 as these numbers were available, this is possible but Class 48 and Class 49 were also free as Type 4 series locos and previously un-allocated.
I hope this helps.
Greg H.

 

[7113]

Am I right in saying that 48 was originally allocated to the eth fitted Brush type 4's (later 47)

Regards

 

[4779]

No, you are almost there. Class 48s were the 47s fitted experimentally with V12 engines 12LVA24 of 2650 hp in 1965/66. There were only 5 of them D1702-D1706, and they were not particularly successful and were all re-engined with the standard 12LDA28 engines by the first few months of 1971.

What is interesting, given the 43xxx allocation of HST power cars, is that the APT power cars had numbers in the 49xxx range. I saw a few in the late 1970s, when they were undergoing trials.

I could never understand why an electric (albeit part of a unit) was give a number in the diesel series.

 

[7113]

QUOTE (jonny888 @ 22 Jan 2009, 16:30) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>No, you are almost there. Class 48s were the 47s fitted experimentally with V12 engines 12LVA24 of 2650 hp

Thank you - I knew there was a difference but couldn't find the reference material at the time.

Regards