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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi everyone.

Should really have posted this yesterday but I'm no good at these so....erm........Here's some info.

Gauge modelled: 4mm 'OO'

Era modelled: Privatised railway (around the time of MMLs Project Rio)

Location Modelled: Between Sheffield and Penistone (not the Barnsley line), a fictional Main station (Ablingham) and an equally fictional small stop (Bourne).

Experience: A Fair bit, care of my 10 year railway career and 15 years of modelling, only started actually building railway kits late last year though.
 

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Welcome to the forum, a good place to be, I am new as well, just a few days off retirement age so now I am starting getting my layout plans together.
Anyway I have found lots of good advice off "this lot" LOL , so welcome again and good luck.
 

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Hi. It's always hard to know where to start, especially when talking about oneself!

Welcome.

Sounds like we'll all be able to pick your brains for advice on the 12 inch : 1 foot "modelling"!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I know exactly what you mean John.


If I can help I'm only to glad to do so but I must confess that I can only really be of use if it is post 1990 as I was a bit young before hand!!!!!

Its taken me 15 years to come up with a layout that is reasonably workable and provide the 'entertainment' I need to keep me interested. Going through all sorts like 4 level tail chasers to my current 'end to end' loop system.

I would love to post a pic up here but unfortunately I can't use my laptop (anyone got a power lead for a Compaq Presario 700 series?), and I'm only 'borrowing' this pc, so I can't download stuff onto it, shame.

Is there a place you can 'plan' a layout online?
 

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From a google search i did download some planning software , but its all a bit basic . If i can find the http i`ll post it up. You don`t do the planning on line.
 

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Hello Oh hairy One (ó gruaigáin) and welcome (new-ish myself)

You will get and hopefully give lots of advise here in this forum. I periodically sweep through it and the DCC info is especially good.

There are currently a few topics which are particularly informative in terms of planning and building a layout (although pretty much all the topics and info is good throughout this forum, these examples are merely the latest gems I have come accross)

The Ricard Johnson ones are very good technical stuff and his website is excellent (it's marked in his topics) as are Neils Blog and ............................................

and the one on 'help on control and isolation' are good pointers to a layout and how to 'describe' it graphically. You can download some low tech CAD.

Just look at the new topics and go to thje ones mentioned above.

Happy searching (the fun is partly in the chase)

Basil
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I just thought if I could do it online it would save me having to mess with this pc and I could illustrate the layout I have.

The search will go on........
 

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QUOTE (hairyhandedfool @ 30 Apr 2008, 11:30) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Hi everyone.

Should really have posted this yesterday but I'm no good at these so....erm........Here's some info.

Gauge modelled: 4mm 'OO'

Era modelled: Privatised railway (around the time of MMLs Project Rio)

Location Modelled: Between Sheffield and Penistone (not the Barnsley line), a fictional Main station (Ablingham) and an equally fictional small stop (Bourne).

Experience: A Fair bit, care of my 10 year railway career and 15 years of modelling, only started actually building railway kits late last year though.
hello mate you built a layout on the penistone-sheffield line is it dc overhead electric and also whats mmls project rio as a barnsley lad am intrested in anything from around the district.thanks bri.s
 

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QUOTE (bri.s @ 27 May 2008, 08:18) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>hello mate you built a layout on the penistone-sheffield line is it dc overhead electric and also whats mmls project rio as a barnsley lad am intrested in anything from around the district.thanks bri.s
also happy bday mate
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
QUOTE (bri.s @ 27 May 2008, 08:18) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>hello mate you built a layout on the penistone-sheffield line is it dc overhead electric and also whats mmls project rio as a barnsley lad am intrested in anything from around the district.thanks bri.s

Currently there is no overheads, as I thought the idea of the DC system being removed was preferable to the thought of it being converted and made the assumption that BR would go the same way on cost grounds, with the portals and wires being removed as maintenance was required. Also, I have far too many 156s for it to be economic for me to use overheads at the moment.

That said I do need an excuse to run the 319s I have bought. I got them because I like them and used to drive them, but could use the excuse they are on test for potential use on the route (if I do finally decide to go for overheads)

MMLs (Midland Mainline) Project Rio was cooked up by someone who saw the closure of the West Coast Mainline (WCML) to Manchester on weekends, for tilt and speed upgrades, as a potential problem and saw to it that direct trains from London still ran to Manchester.

MML was given some spare HST sets that were previously used by Virgin Cross Country (VXC) until Voyagers started running. They were used to run services from London St Pancras, itself in a state of flux, to Manchester calling Luton/Bedford, Derby, Chesterfield, Stockport and Piccadilly, using the curve from the Midland Mainline at Dore to avoid Sheffield. Originally planned as an hourly service, it first ran as a four hourly service with the other three running as far as Leicester, due to the stock not being ready, most of the trains did not have a restaurant car, the exception being one set hired from First Great Western (43004/43009) which promptly broke down at Leicester on its first run. I went on one such train myself once which was totally Virgin liveried (minus the logos) and was formed as follows:

PC-TGS-TSO-TSO-TSO-TFO-PC

PC = Power car
TGS = Trailer Guard Standard
TSO = Trailer Standard Open
TFO = Trailer First Open

It was a time when MML decided to change from its 'Teal and Tangerine' colours to the now familiar white and blue livery, which saw full sets in a mixture of all three liveries, on any route. The only coach types not to appear in Virgin colours on these services were the buffet coaches as they needed to have a full kitchen fitted.

How does this fit in I hear you ask? Well it doesn't in real life, but I use the HSTs and a 170 to run to London St Pancras from Leeds via Huddersfield (HSTs) and as a space saving move from Sheffield (170/HST). It could be said that the 'Rio' service may have benefited from going through Sheffield and along the Woodhead, but we shall never know. I might include a few 'on diversion' when Hornby release the ex-Lima models later in the year (or even the brand new ones!) as I only have two sets currently.

QUOTE (bri.s @ 27 May 2008, 08:23) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>also happy bday mate

Thank you.
 

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QUOTE (hairyhandedfool @ 28 May 2008, 12:47) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Currently there is no overheads, as I thought the idea of the DC system being removed was preferable to the thought of it being converted and made the assumption that BR would go the same way on cost grounds, with the portals and wires being removed as maintenance was required. Also, I have far too many 156s for it to be economic for me to use overheads at the moment.

That said I do need an excuse to run the 319s I have bought. I got them because I like them and used to drive them, but could use the excuse they are on test for potential use on the route (if I do finally decide to go for overheads)

MMLs (Midland Mainline) Project Rio was cooked up by someone who saw the closure of the West Coast Mainline (WCML) to Manchester on weekends, for tilt and speed upgrades, as a potential problem and saw to it that direct trains from London still ran to Manchester.

MML was given some spare HST sets that were previously used by Virgin Cross Country (VXC) until Voyagers started running. They were used to run services from London St Pancras, itself in a state of flux, to Manchester calling Luton/Bedford, Derby, Chesterfield, Stockport and Piccadilly, using the curve from the Midland Mainline at Dore to avoid Sheffield. Originally planned as an hourly service, it first ran as a four hourly service with the other three running as far as Leicester, due to the stock not being ready, most of the trains did not have a restaurant car, the exception being one set hired from First Great Western (43004/43009) which promptly broke down at Leicester on its first run. I went on one such train myself once which was totally Virgin liveried (minus the logos) and was formed as follows:

PC-TGS-TSO-TSO-TSO-TFO-PC

PC = Power car
TGS = Trailer Guard Standard
TSO = Trailer Standard Open
TFO = Trailer First Open

It was a time when MML decided to change from its 'Teal and Tangerine' colours to the now familiar white and blue livery, which saw full sets in a mixture of all three liveries, on any route. The only coach types not to appear in Virgin colours on these services were the buffet coaches as they needed to have a full kitchen fitted.

How does this fit in I hear you ask? Well it doesn't in real life, but I use the HSTs and a 170 to run to London St Pancras from Leeds via Huddersfield (HSTs) and as a space saving move from Sheffield (170/HST). It could be said that the 'Rio' service may have benefited from going through Sheffield and along the Woodhead, but we shall never know. I might include a few 'on diversion' when Hornby release the ex-Lima models later in the year (or even the brand new ones!) as I only have two sets currently.

Thank you.
hello mate i think im going to base my layout in the 1950`s onwards around the barnsley area in a fictisous setting pretending that the dc system was extended more in to the barnsley area than just to wath. ive always been intrested in the woodhead electrics even though i never saw them running in real life ive seen alot of videos and read alot of books over the years and just caught the bug. it would probably be easyer to do in 00 but in n i can get closer to the kind of length train that ran.the1 train i did see was a double headed 37s on mgrs had to climb the junior school wall to see ,the teaches were not happy but you could hear it coming up from stairfoot for about 5 minutes before it got to the school. anyway im of to a good start purchased a 76 fully built and got some metal kits from msl 77/76 ive nearly finished the 77 not bad to say its my first metal kit il have to get a pic on here when i find out how.
 

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QUOTE (bri.s @ 29 May 2008, 07:13) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>hello mate i think im going to base my layout in the 1950`s onwards around the barnsley area in a fictisous setting pretending that the dc system was extended more in to the barnsley area than just to wath. ive always been intrested in the woodhead electrics even though i never saw them running in real life ive seen alot of videos and read alot of books over the years and just caught the bug. it would probably be easyer to do in 00 but in n i can get closer to the kind of length train that ran.the1 train i did see was a double headed 37s on mgrs had to climb the junior school wall to see ,the teaches were not happy but you could hear it coming up from stairfoot for about 5 minutes before it got to the school. anyway im of to a good start purchased a 76 fully built and got some metal kits from msl 77/76 ive nearly finished the 77 not bad to say its my first metal kit il have to get a pic on here when i find out how.
hello again mate thanks for info also i think your right about the overhead they put it in tinsley yard only to rip it up again not that long after and i think they installed it with the view to conversion. also how big is your layout to run hst sets of any size you need a decent space im in the middle of moving house but i hope for 11feet by3and a half mabe 4 so not bad for n gauge probably struggle n 00 for the type i want to build. cheers bri.s
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
My layout is in the loft and has a length, at its longest point, of approx. 14ft and a width of approx. 10ft it runs around the loft in what I call an end to end loop system. It does form a loop but only because I have to have access to the low level sidings from the mainline and from the longer HST length sidings aswell. It is quite possible to run one train around the layout constantly but not two.

The HSTs are full length 8+2 sets and are stored on a choice of three sidings on the main level or on a choice of upto 8 roads on a special low level storage area.

The plan has a twin track line throughout with a 2-3 car terminus platform at the main station (Ablingham) which lies between the two through platforms. I have a half covered platform arrangement which permits me to 'hide' the station around a curve and leaves about 3 coach lengths as open air. The entrance to these hidden platforms are covered by two Hornby Scaledale stone double track tunnel portals each of which hold one track and the platform. Above the tunnels are the station buildings which include a stationers, paper shop and cafe.

The obvious advantage of half covered platforms is that I don't have to have space for the covered bit of the platform beyond what can be seen.

Just outside Ablingham station are two stabling areas, one is on the 'down' side of the track and houses a fueling point for upto 6 locos and is run by Freightliner, the other is on the 'up' side and is a stabling and minor maintenance yard for 6 units of 2-3 car length with a wash road and 2 disused sidings, and a freight road for an American car importer.

Bourne station is a small calling point for the Sheffield stoppers, in the form of an 'island' platform with two platform faces. It also has a platform on a line which is no longer connected to the main line and houses a restaurant in the form of two mk1 coaches (a BCK and a RMB).

Pictures when I can get it sorted.

It is quite packed but I don't think it is over-full as some can be. 'N' should give you plenty of room for scenery which could make it very nice looking whereas mine will have the boxed in feel that I think is the norm in this age.

4ft wide isn't alot in 'OO' so 'n' would suit you better.

I did see an 'n' gauge layout based on the Woodhead in Model Rail once but can't recall what it is called, it was quite long if I remember right.

Just as a note, if you don't want to copy whats already posted you can use the fast reply option at the bottom, it will save some scrolling.
 

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hello mate cheers alot easer, since ive been back in the hobby ive noticeed a few takeovers bachman farish lima by hornby now as i remember is that the lima hsts were a lot longer than the hornby now that theyve taken them over have they made there hsts lima length or kept them there length, i think the lima size was more to scale wasnt it and is there any other manufactures make the hst now.
 

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In 'OO'? No, just Hornby now, to my Knowledge.

Hornby's original coaches were under length and had just seven full length windows, which were later changed to the correct number of eight, but shorter. Lima did indeed have full length coaches which, in my opinion, were far better. Hornby did release new full length coaches a few years ago, when they finally realised the real things were here to stay for a while, although they still ignored the TGS and sleeper vehicles.

Shortly after that Lima went into administration and Hornby took over the range. Recently the former Lima TGS and sleeper coaches have found their way into Hornby's range, but do look odd next to the other Hornby mk3 coaches. Later this year Hornby will update its range again with the re-release of the Lima power cars in the Railroad range and a brand new power car in their main range, an indication that the current model just isn't good enough. I still think the Lima mk3s are better than the new Hornby ones, but will the Lima mk3s appear in the Railroad brand? We will wait and see.

Hornby only took Lima's assets, the company itself went bust. Most of Lima's european models have come under the Hornby International brand.

As far as I am aware only Farish do a n gauge HST.
 

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i wouldnt mind an HST in br blue though i think i should have the space to run it without looking silly.although i want to model an earlyer setting i do like some of the modern stuff like the voyagers and pendilino units i think thats how its spelt anyway.i got a magazine the other day that told you how to build an n gauge APT from an HST so mabe when ive had a bit of practice il have a go ,when i was younger i got 1 for christmas a hornby 1 i think cant remember what happend to it though
 

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I think I saw that mag... Anyway, it is your railway and therefore what you say goes.
Personally, I think if you can justify a train being there it's fine, but a pendolino might be pushing it!

I also looked at getting a 9 car pendolino but I can't justify the £200+ for a train I'll hardly use at the moment, besides I have to get some Kadee couplers for my 150s and 319s first, oh and two more motors for them, and my finances are suddenly, and somewhat unexpectedly, very tight.

Finding room for scale length trains can be a major problem, particularly in 'OO', and I think if you are dealing with the first sets of HSTs you might want to check what coaches they used at the time you model (assuming you are modelling late enough for them), some had two buffets, and lets not forget that Cross country sets had only seven coaches. In the begining there was no TGS coaches, they were added later when guards complained about the state of the compartment in the power car. There was a guide to some sets in Model rail last year, but I don't have that particular issue anymore.

I have to find space for the HSTs as I have only one 9 car and three 11 car sidings (based on a mk3 length coach) in one direction and several long trains:

2 x MML HST (8+2 one in full MML T&T, one in mixture of MML T&T, MML blue and Virgin)
1 x Virgin XC HST (failed, 5+2 towed by a 67).
1 x Virgin WC Mk2 set (9 coaches plus a DVT and Loco)
2 x Virgin WC Mk3 set (8 coaches plus a DVT and Loco, I also have another one of these but no room to run it)
1 x Pullman charter train (6 pullmans, a Mk2f buffet and Mk3 sleeper pulled by two 47s, or anything else charter-like)
2 x Loco hauled sets (7-8 Mk2 coaches + Class 50/31/37)
Plus various freight trains.
Sometimes the 5 Voyagers I have have to fit in them too.

This lack of space has lead me to remove the mail train I had, but as they were on borrowed time, at this point in history, it is no great loss. The freight trains have the advantage that I can shunt them into shorter sidings quite easily, and so are less of an issue.

In reality, the Virgin HST and WC coach sets would not fit in as XC had lost all their HSTs by this period, and their use of WC sets was rare at the best of times, but with XC constantly needing HSTs in summer these days it is a license I am willing to afford, along with the route on some trains being changed from York-Leeds-Wakefield-(Doncaster)-Sheffield to York-Leeds-Huddersfield-Sheffield in peak times to ease congestion of the WCML, honest.
 

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didnt realise the pendolino cost so much may be a few years before i invest in one of those .a few years back i saw an HST going through barnsley it stoped at the station for what reason i dont know but i remember it took the whole platform and sat over the level crossing and still had coaches to spare i think we still get one through but late at night i work next to the railway and you can tell when one goes by because the building shakes for ages same with 37s on engineners trains unlike the usual dmu. also i do remember them runing them through cudworth even the gas tubine one. like the woodhead route the cudworth line went from busy to none exsistence like somany anyway back to the models i quite like the 67s imagine a67 running next to a black 76 modellers licence or what like you said i could run what i think looks nice although the layout will be built in a diferent era.ps what is the 67 a freight or mixed dont know what they were built for dont think ive ever seen one in real life although there was a light engine that id not seen before in the station last time i was in town but by the time i got there it was rolling off into the distance and didnt get a good look.
 
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