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DT
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If say Hornby or Bachmann were to put their design teams to task and come up with something really interesting and unusual; made with the same quality and priced in the same way as the current releases, what would you like them to make?

I would like them to produce a LMS or LNER Garratt with double motors and DCC ready with space for a large hi-power Zimo or similar decoder.

LMS Garratt:



LNER Garratt:



If this sells, then they could look at building some South African and Australian Garratts.

More info here.
 

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one of the garrets would be nice.

Personally i would like to see one of the very early victorian loco's.
The brittish invented the steam engine and yet this period seems to be almost totally ignored by modellers.

I was up at York for the railfest a couple of years ago and the movement on the pennydarren was wonderfull. or how about a puffing billy or a steam elephant.....

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/RApennyRA.jpg

Peter

I have got to get to 1000 posts before i leave from work!! i am soooo close!
 

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It's certainly a thought Doug, after all if Heljan are prepared to risk making the Falcon, of which the single example only ever existed then I for one would think that the idea of a big Garrett would sell. The down side I suspect is that it would probably come in at over £200.00, a price which many UK modellers would refuse to pay. I seem to recall that a kit was available for the LMS one back in the 70's and that was costly.

Their are a number of things I would love to see as r-t-r but I can't see it happening in my lifetime.

Regards

John
 

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I have a kit built LMS garrett. there were actually 2 kits available. the kitmaster one and the K's model.
The moulds for the kitmaster were destroyed and the k's model went to Nu-cast.

Mine needs some attention. i did the valve gear i messed up the first time is sitting in a box. i have replacements but i never seem to get around to it.

it is actually still available. the kit cost me about £120 and did not include motors and gears ect...
unfortunatly i believe the moulds changed hands and the new chap is charging silly money. someone i know approached him and asked about the situation and he said he was thinking about stopping production because nobody was buying them! its catch 22. if he keeps his prices at their current crazy levels then he will never sell them. if he dosent sell them then he will stop production. its such a shame that K's has ended up like this. it has so much potential. i would love to see the continental kits back in production. they did a wonderfull range of models that were just that little bit different. i believe he now wants in the region of £200 for the garrett kit. its just not worth that. when i got my replacement valve gear parts i was charged £30 just for 2 small etches. i dont mind paying reasonable prices but that was just taking the p"$#.


DJH make a very nice kit of the LNER garrett.

Peter
 

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I forgot about the Kitmaster one - they do occasionally turn up at the shows, but they do attract high prices if unmade.

Regards

John
 

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QUOTE (Doug @ 30 May 2007, 22:13) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>If say Hornby or Bachmann were to put their design teams to task and come up with something really interesting and unusual; made with the same quality and priced in the same way as the current releases, what would you like them to make?

I would like them to produce a LMS or LNER Garratt with double motors and DCC ready with space for a large hi-power Zimo or similar decoder.

LMS Garratt:



LNER Garratt:



If this sells, then they could look at building some South African and Australian Garratts.

More info here.
So would I, currently the only ready to run one is the Eureka NSW Garratt model at $900 which looks great but that works out as 400quid. This equates to two continental digi sound locos or four stealth UK ones.



I actually asked Simon Kohler about this as it is something I am after too. He said that the running gear could actually come from existing locos and that chassis and bodies could be made to go with it. The big issue is how many people would buy it? Obviously I promoted ther idea that loads of us would but I guess he hears the same about the Blue Pullman. How about a petition or something saying we all promise to buy one if he makes it. I would buy most of these Garratts especially the SA and NSW ones. Unfortunately it seems that kits are the go unless you want to go with the Eureka one.


So if anyone has any ideas or suggestions as to how we can get one of these made I'd love to hear it.

Maybe we (MRF members) could commission one like they did with the Scotrail DMU? I'm sure that the excess could be flogged off at the rail shows. How would we do that?
 

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QUOTE I forgot about the Kitmaster one - they do occasionally turn up at the shows, but they do attract high prices if unmade.

I've seen quite a few of the above in the last year. The going price for an unmade kit was £120 or there abouts. The kitmaster version was powered by two of the old version of the Hornby Fowler tank (open framed motor I think ?). When looking at the body I had reservations about being able to fit a new Fowler chassis inside one of these and this put me off buying one. This would make it a very expensive loco. The last complete kit one I've seen was selling for in excess of £500 which I regard as well over the top. Yes I would buy one if Hornby or Bachmann produced one. A dilemma exists for manufacturers as to have broad appeal models should be HO gauge !.

The last Garrett I saw in the Flesh was on Shunting duties at Elandsfontein (between Pretoria and Johannesburg) in the mid Eighties, although there were still a few operating from Springs MDP in eighties as well. Perhaps Johan De Villiers could confirm this.
 

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DT
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
This is why it would be a good idea to make these now. The guys that saw them are still around. Give it a decade or two later and the railfans then will not remember what a Garratt ever was.

I think that with a little nudge, Hornby could evaluate this as a potential project.
 

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I think part of the problem with Garrets is that there were lots of different types. there isnt a single iconic type. its not like the bog boys that were famous for being the biggest.
I would love another garrett but i am not so fussed about an australian one. i would quite like one of the SAR class 59's.

On a side note with the nucast model becomming increasingly difficult to find i keep having thoughts about etching one. no particular part of the loco would be difficult but its just such a big job.

Peter
 

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QUOTE (pedromorgan @ 31 May 2007, 14:27) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>its not like the bog boys that were famous for being the biggest.
Peter

Sorry Peter but the above typo has just made my day!!


Regards

John
 

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>Sorry Peter but the above typo has just made my day!!
With reference to another post, I think Peter has a faulty keyboard. This 'o' / 'i' substitution is the same as 'm' / 'n'.

David
 

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QUOTE (Makemineadouble @ 31 May 2007, 10:47) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>The last Garrett I saw in the Flesh was on Shunting duties at Elandsfontein (between Pretoria and Johannesburg) in the mid Eighties, although there were still a few operating from Springs MDP in eighties as well. Perhaps Johan De Villiers could confirm this.


Hi MMaD and Forum Members

The Garratts were beautiful beasts and those of us fortunate enough to see them working will never forget those awesome sights and sounds. Everytime I see one it is a thrilling experience.


The only Garratt in operation in South Africa that I know of is a beautifully restored one that is being used by Rovos Rail, a pivately owned Railway Company. My information is that this Garratt, painted in the Rovos Rail green corporate colours, is on loan from Sandstone Estates (see my note at the end about Sandstone Estates). Its details are as follows: GMAM Garratt ex SAR No 4079 built by Beyer Peacock in 1956 and named "Lyndie Lou". Rovos Rail operate ultra luxurious trains between Pretoria and Cape Town and Pretoria and Mphumalanga (Eastern Transvaal). At one stage Rovos also had an annual trip between Cape Town and Dar es Salaam. This trip lasted 26 days there and back but I am not sure whether this trip is still on. These trains are known as The Pride of Africa.

Rovos Rail aquired the old Capital Park loco sheds and service facilities in Pretoria. They restored all the workshop sheds and facilities and built a period station on the premises where their trains arrive and depart. All Rovos Trains leaving the Rovos station are steam hauled either by the Garratt or two Class 19D's with Vanderbilt tenders or a Class 25 NC (Non condensed) that has been converted to an oil burner. Rovos Rail also had a Class 6 in operation but it has now been retired and is on display. The passenger coaches are converted Spoornet mainline stock as well as some dining car sets from the old Blue Train. On the Cape Town trip for instance, the steam hauled passenger train will leave Rovos Station, travel through the Pretoria Main Station and stop at Verwoerdburg Station about 20 km from Rovos Station. Here the steam loco will uncouple and return to the Rovos yard whilst the passenger train will continue its journey to Cape Town behind Spoornet electric motive power. On the train's return from Cape Town the same happens in reverse order.

A member of the Pretoria Model Train Club has built a full Rovos Rail set in HO being pulled by a Class 19D.

Sandstone Estates is situated in the beautiful Eastern Free State near the town of Ficksburg. At the moment they have 14km of Narrow Gauge (24 inch) in full operation on the Estates. They also have a fleet of beatifully restored Narrow Gauge steam locomotives including several NG Garratts, as well as lots of NG rolling stock. These trains work on the Estates every day hauling the crops from the Estates (mainly cherries and grain) to the warehouses or the nearest standard gauge Spoornet station. They even have a fully restored military train as well as a NG locomotive from Beira in Mozambique. On the Estates you will also find many fully restored and operational steam tractors and other steam driven machinery as well as at least 30 fully restored antique tractors.

Sandstone Estates have at least four open days during the year and a visit to the Estates is a must if you are in the area.

Garrats of course also operated in Zimbabwe and as far as I know there are a few restored ones still in Zimbabwe.

Go to www.tsfr.org/~trevors/atgb/worldreports.html for a huge selection of beautiful pictures of South African and Zimbabwean steam locomotives including Garrats. A must see site!


Go to www.railsafari.com and www.trainsafaris.com for some pictures and stories about Rovos Rail.

Go to www.sandstone-estates.com for a full story on the Sandstone Heritage Fund and a complete list with some pictures of all their locos and rolling stock.

If you go onto the search engine and type in Rovos Rail or Sandstone Estates you will also find several other sites with some interesting info.

It is such a pity that the authorities have neglegted the preservation of steam in South Africa, but fortunately there are people in the private sector that have a passion for steam.


Kind regards.

Johan
 

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DT
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Yes, thanks Johan for the info. Hopefully one day I'll get to ride on that Rovos Rail Garratt.

In your opinion, how would the South African market welcome a ready-to-run SAR Garratt locomotive made to HO/OO scale for 16.5mm track (which I know is not the correct gauge for these narrow gauge locos - HOm at 12mm is more to scale)?

What models would be popular? - GM, GMAM, NGG16 etc.

If anyone is interested, check out some South African steam photos here.
 

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It's a minute market in South Africa. Any model I feel would have to be based around H/O track which really brings us back to 00. I wonder why the kit master moulds were destroyed, were they part of the ones involved in a fire some years back ?.
 

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I thought they were one of the moulds broken up for scrap in the early 60's?

Regards

John
 

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Folks,
I remember seeing a Garratt in a glass case at Milholme Models,when I collected my Merchant Navy they had made for me
,which was one of their kits.
If I remember correctly it had etched brass chassic and white metal superstructure.Beautiful looking model.
I have seen the MN on Ebay.does the Garratt ever appear?

All the best,

David
 

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QUOTE (Doug @ 1 Jun 2007, 09:00) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>In your opinion, how would the South African market welcome a ready-to-run SAR Garratt locomotive made to HO/OO scale for 16.5mm track (which I know is not the correct gauge for these narrow gauge locos - HOm at 12mm is more to scale)?

What models would be popular? - GM, GMAM, NGG16 etc.

Hi Doug,

As MMaD mentioned the South African Model Train market is minute compared to Europe and the States, but I think the modellers of the South African steam era will welcome a r-t-r SAR Garratt locomotive in HO scale, as long as it affordable. The DJH kit is fine but it is expensive and need some kit building experience to get it all together. It also needs some serious fine tuning to make it a good runner.

Regarding what models would be the most popular - as you might know I am not into modelling the South African Railways but from what I hear in conversations with SAR modellers at the Conventions and other model train get togethers it would appear as if the GMAM would be the most popular HO scale model whilst the NGG16 would be the most popular with the few HOm modellers.

However I do not think that they will ever have the luxury of r-t-r Garratt models (which is a pity) as quite a few thousand must be manufactured to make it an economical proposition. An example - Lima is prepared to once again manufacture SAR rolling stock provided that a minimum order of 10 000 be placed and to be objective I do not think the South African model train market can absorb that many.

Let us hope the preserved Garratts will still be there to be admired by future generations.

Kind regards.

Johan
 
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