[Gary]

I checked the Hornby International website recently and there has been no news updates since June 2005.

Many of the Jouef and Lima items were due for release in the first and second quarter of 2006.

So I thought I would do a google search to see if any continental shops actually had these products up for sale.

Now it appears that our continental retailer friends are way behind the UK when it comes to offering products online as a google search on several products generally revealed just a very small handful of shops around Europe with online stores and offering Hornby International product.

The retailers I visited when in France and Spain did not have any online presence whatsoever and offered a very small range of model railway products.

Is Europe really in the dark ages when it comes to railway modelling and the internet?

For things like camping and outdoor leisure European websites are far superior to anything offered in the UK and from that point of view it is the UK that are in the dark ages. This is evidence that where there is a demand then the Europeans are very capable of building fantastic websites and it is simply down to the very limited interest in railway modelling for this very poor online showing and the lack of any real investment in time and money in this area.

It genuinely seems that there is little interest among Europeans (Germans excepted?) for railway modelling and the British really are the number 1 model railway online fanatics in Europe with by far the largest European internet presence.

So well done the British!

It just seems a pity that Hornby International with its website seems to mirror the European online scene when it could very easily be the European leader in this area as there is so little competition.

It seems like a chicken and egg situation.

Do you make the big investment in the hope that you can create interest in Europe, or do you wait for the interest to develop before making the investment?

For the moment it seems that the Euro modeller simply has no where to go and is an isolated hobbyist.

Happy modelling
Gary

 

[Gary]

I did suggest that Germany may be an exception.

In terms of German products there will inevitibly be more as Marklin have a catalogue of 4000 products (including accessories) compared to Hornby (UK only) with 1000. Still not convinced about the overall German online presence being any higher than the UK.

The rest of Europe outside the UK and Germany does seem to be a bit of an internet model railway desert with the odd oasis present.

Happy modelling
Gary

 

[Gary]

The German modeller has had the benefit of the two largest home manufacturers of model railway gear offering digital products for many years and so it is inevital that the DCC market in Germany is strong. They would stop offering DCC equipment otherwise!

With the benefit of Britains largest home manufacturer offering DCC gear very shortly then the technology side of modelling could be about to take off in the UK in a big way.

And also in France, Spain and Italy as Hornby have indicated that they will offer Hornby Digital with appropriate branding in these territories.

We are getting sidetracked here into a discussion about Germany and comparisons with the UK. I have acknowledged that Germany may be an exception to the rule.

The original starting point was Continental Europe as a whole with little online presence in those areas where Hornby International are supplying Lima, Jouef, Electrotren and Rivarossi product.

I would agree that there could well be a link between the use of DCC and the size of the online presence in that country.

If you have a technology mindset then logically you are more likely to access the internet.

So Hornby Digital may well advance Model Rail Forum membership!

And by eventually reaching those parts that no other company has reached may well help to bring Continental Europe out of the internet dark ages.

The Germans are clearly passionate about engineering and technology.

What is it that gets the pulses racing among French, Italian and Spanish hobbyists?

The TGV and trains that have shapely curves perhaps....

Happy modelling
Gary

 

[Gary]

Lets take Ebay as being a barometer of interest in railway modelling.

Model railway sales on various Ebay sites by number of products offered:-

Ebay UK 23000 items
Ebay Germany 100000+ items
Ebay USA 70000+ items
Ebay France 11000 items
Ebay Italy 3000 items
Ebay Spain 1500 items (N and HO only)
Ebay Australia 4000 items

France is a surprise as this country seems to have a high level of interest in model railways which is not reflected in the availability of product in the French shops.

And is Germany really a bigger market than the USA or is this high level of product for sale a reflection of the depth of product available to Germans? Even so I suspect the Germans have the highest level of interest in model railways in the world!

The Spanish have a relatively low level of interest in railway modelling and no interest in anything larger than HO.

The interest in railway modelling in Italy is little higher than Spain and therefore it is a surprise that Lima were considered to be such a big and important company in its time. They probably exported much more product than they ever sold in its home market of Italy.

And whilst the level of interest in Australia appears on the low side as a proportion of its population it is broadly around 70% of that of the UK so relatively high.

Happy modelling
Gary

 

[Gary]

QUOTE As Ebay originated as an English Language site, it is only to be expected that the greater volume of its traffic be in the English language and/or be connected with English speaking countries, regardless of the products selected.

The German Ebay site in the German language has a higher quantity of model railway products for sale than the American Ebay site in the English language. Its pretty easy in any language to work out which is the model railway category on Ebay. Now if it was leiderhosen....

If the point being made is that the Spanish and the Italians and the French as nations may not be big internet users relative to the Germans and the British and the Americans then than that may be a valid comment which could indeed affect the figures.

However modellers in Italy and France and Spain would have to be relatively wealthy members of the society in which they live I would suspect. And among these wealthier members of society internet use may be more common. I do agree that these are pure assumptions and one has to make up ones own mind on this however we cannot get away from the fact that Spain and Italy and France are minor markets from a model railway perspective. The largest player in Spain (Electrotren) has an annual turnover of £5m.

Happy modelling
Gary

 

[Gary]

Whatever and however and all things being equal ultimately Germany has a lot more model railway stuff on German Ebay than America or Britain and for me this was a bit of a surprise and possibly disproving that Europe is in the dark ages. Well parts of it anyway!

The model rail catagory on German Ebay is over 4 times bigger than British Ebay and Hornby have recently said that the German market is 6 times bigger than the British market. So it seems a pretty good rule of thumb guide to be fair.

As has been pointed out by others though the Germans are more into "Toy Type" model railways and the British more into "Prototypical" model railways. I don't know if this can be factored in to the phenomenal success that German Ebay seems to enjoy from a model railway perspectives. I know that when a group of German Marklin collectors turn up to view a Marklin collection in the UK its a bit like a barmy army!

Happy modelling
Gary

 

[Gary]

I accept the thread has moved on however best to read the initial post which was more to do with the use of the internet among railway modellers around Europe and not at all to do with the modelling hardware. Ebay surely has to be a reasonable marker here?

Rail-Rider by coming in late has gone off at a tangent somewhat and sadly I have perpertrated that sin!

I am basing my judgement of a nations modellers by how they present their layouts at the numerous exhibitions I attend. Maybe this offers a narrow perspective or it offers a broad perspective. I can't really say. However I expect a German layout modelled by Germans to have a certain look, an American layout modelled by Americans to have a certain look and a British layout modelled by the British to have a certain look. My preconceptions here are normally advocated when I see the layouts.

All those nations mentioned such as Switzerland and Austria have their own local Ebay sites. As an English speaker I visit the Australian and American sites as well as the British site. The same principles may apply to German speakers living in Austria and Switzerland. Generally Eaby sellers list in their home country.

Happy modelling
Gary

 

[Gary]

Rail-Rider posted the first "disproving remark" in the whole thread only recently in the last 2 days (where have you been?) and now is saying that the best reaction would be to not post remarks designed to provoke a reaction! What has this to do with model railways?

And to be honest what a dull forum it would be if Model Rail Forum members were banned from posting remarks designed to provoke a discussion. I for one would not advocate this form of moderation.

This thread has been running along very sweetly for several months.

Recent posts do seem to be getting a bit personal which is against the rules of this forum. If we stick to subject of model railways then we will all get along fine.

Happy modelling
Gary

 

[Gary]

OK I do read "The Sun" which is a British tabloid having tabloid headlines designed to sell the newspaper.

A headline invites people to take a closer look and if a headlines provokes discussion then there is nothing wrong with that.

The underlying story is about the use of the internet by continental modellers and the thread has developed.

Ok, Germany is neat and tidy and its model railways reflect this. Nothing wrong with that.

Britain is an overpopulated island with a Victorian railway system either with a lack of loco cleaning facilities or operating an overstretched railway system where there is little time to clean rolling stock and its model railways reflect this and nothing wrong with that.

What I find offensive is being preached to and being told what I should and should not do in what is basically an English speaking forum (with rules by the way which we should all follow) which by its very nature is going to attract visitors with an interest in British outline modelling.

Ok this is an international section and we all acknowledge that there will be English speakers who have an interest in things overseas. However lets be blunt. It will always have a British perspective as this basically is a forum full of Brits or British exPats! Those who are offended by a British perspective should not go around crying foul!

Its up to those who have a serious interest in the international scene to educate, not to condemn.

Am I right or wrong?

Happy modelling
Gary

 

[Gary]

QUOTE This is by no means a scientifically sound survey but from what I have seen the French prefer inanimate model cars to model railways.

Thats exactly the impression of France I had on my travels this summer when on the lookout for such shops. And in Spain right in the centre of Barcelona next to C&A (yes they still have C&A in Spain!) there is a massive Scalextric shop actually called "Scalextric" which you cannot miss. Same in Almeria. Scalextric but no trains. Whilst I found a few toy shops none were selling trains however they were selling Scalextric sets. Car mad I suspect.

Tangier had nothing and Gibralter had nothing.

Happy modelling
Gary

 

[Gary]

To be honest my remark was more to do with which periods are modelled by respective countries.

British exhibition layouts commonly use smokey weathered subjects from the past.

Continental layouts are inclined to use subjects from more recent cleaner times. Also the continent was electrified years ahead of the UK and this also makes a difference.

Happy modelling
Gary

 

[Gary]

By suggesting the Continental modellers are reluctant to weather their rolling stock becuase of values is it suggested that they are more inclined towards collecting than modelling?

I would have said that much of Europe was rebuilt after 1945 and a cleaner dynamic, modern looking railway system was developed as a result much earlier than it was in the UK.

This may go some way to explaining the appearance of Continental layouts, which, lets be honest, do have a different look and feel to anything else.

A continental layout modelled on the 1960's will look entirely different to a British layout from the same period having a cleaner tidier appearance as a result of having a very high proportion of infrastructure and buildings that are of a relatively recent origin. When continental layouts are present at British exhibitions I do hear exactly the sort of comments that have been voiced here.

I have not been to a continental exhibition in mainland Europe. I wonder what sort of comments would be overheard about any British layouts present? Wouldn't it be interesting to be a fly on the wall!

Continental subjects from the 1910's and 1920's are rare but when seen do look more like British subjects from the 1960's in appearance.

Happy modelling
Gary

 

[Gary]

QUOTE Not many, I think. As for weathered coaches etc, I'm not sure that there are any offered by manufacturers, surely very few. We can form our own opinions as to why this appears to be the case. Mine is that they don't sell well.

British manufacturers offer limited weathered examples and only really produce enough to meet the limited demand. However, there is a demand so they must believe it is worthwhile for them to offer a limited range.

Now I am not too sure about continental models. Have weathered examples ever been offered?

Browsing through a few catalogues.....

Camouflaged yes. Weathered no.

Considering the relatively passive nature of mainland Europe (and absolutely nothing wrong with that) there is a massive range of military modelling might available to run on the railways.

Its a subject that never seems to be exhibited.

Is every household in continental Europe owned by a closet Nato Commander!

Happy modelling
Gary