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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all,

I've cut and pasted this across from another forum:

QUOTE ("Piermaster")Hi all,

I don't trust PayPal - a couple of years ago I registrered with them only to find that I was a victim of scam involving a hoax PayPal site and it was a very clever phishing scam using the genuine PayPal logo. I only gave them one credit card details and when the spurious payments appeared on my statements I contacted the bank who investigated it further and yes, I was a phishing victim. The bank cancelled my credit card and issued me with a new number. I also changed my e-mail address.

I currently have items for sale on FleaBay and in each case I add this clause:

Sorry I do not use Pay-Pal, although I'm forced to offer it, but I do accept UK Cheques and Postal Orders.
Dave.

Just had a snotty message from eBay withdrawing one of my items from sale because of a complaint that I don't accept PayPal. I've answered back politely and not getting anywhere fast. eBay know that they are acting illegally and consider themselves to be above the laws of each country in which they operate. I am fed up with the to-ing and fro-ing so, can anyone please advise me of an alternative UK based internet auction site?

Many thanks,

Dave
 

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You are just one of the many feebay users world wide that are having this problem
paypal is now compulsory in Australia too

eBay users here , have contacted the ACCC our consumer watchdog
The ACCC has put a stop to Paypal for all transactions that eBay tried to implement
but only temporarily We find out tomorrrow if the ACCC will try to reverse the Paypal copulsory for all listings
at the moment there is no good alternate to eBay but I'm sure there will be soon

The changes feebay have made in the last 6 months have been very costly for sellers and have allowed scammers free reign without recourse . Ive been lucky so far but the new feedback and search systems really have knobs on it


My hobby depends on selling a few things here and there and feebay used to do that fine

Looking at the forums in USA and Australia there are many users very disgruntled with the new feebay

Good luck with finding somewhere new , we have a few local Australian sites but you cant get the exposure of eBay

kind regards zmil

I sympathize with you
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Hi zmil,

At least in Australia your government is on the ball and proactive, here in UK we have have an incompetent Prime Minister, a useless government that would like to condemn eBay's stance but sits on the fence and does nothing as usual.

Off my soapbox for now!

Dave
 

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I have recently found a french site: www.troc.com
It's OK but doesn't offer any description and the postage rates are extravegant: 25euros.
Ben
 

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Sorry, but I just don't see the problem - you cannot blame PayPal for the activities of scammers - scammers are everywhere - it is up to you to be very, very vigilent. They are very clever & the scam sites look good, very good - incidently, I use Morzilla Thunderbird for e-mails & virtually all of the scammers efforts are flagged as "Thunderbird thinks this message is a scam".

Over the past couple of years I have had many attempts to hijack/scam/hack both my Ebay & Paypal Accounts. The simple rule is not to reply to or use any of the links supplied, immediatly delete them & go directly to your account, log in & then do whatever you need to - there is nothing (AFAIK) that cannot be done to operate your account if you log in the correct way.

Ebay/PayPal offer a service - if you use it you just need to accept the fact that you will lose approx' 10% of the sale in commission/fees. Compared to using other traditional auctions (which may actually be better for specialised items, albeit longer turnaround) it is very quick - most of the items I sell on Ebay are put on with a "buy it now" & priced to sell - the last stuff I put on, sold within three days & the money was sitting in my PayPal account, now being used for purchases.

Paypal makes it so much easier, especially for transactions that cross borders currency wise (often you can get much higher prices selling to the US). No having to faff around banking cheques/postal orders & waiting for them to clear. I have bought/sold stuff worldwide with the transactions fully completed within a week. If you insist that you will only dispatch to a Paypal verified address & insured your payment will be as safe as possible.

Ebay/Paypal are getting stricter & applying more rules, but they would not have to be so, if it was not for the scamming scum &, unfotunatly, people noit being aware enough.

Again, if you don't offer Paypal you will get less bids & therefore less.

If you really don't want to use Ebay you can always revert to the classified in the "Todderlers".

One thing you can do to protect your plastic is to change the card itself, say every year - just ask for a new card because the existing one is damaged/does not swipe properly & you will get a new card within a couple of days with a new number, rendering the old details usless.
 

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The other option is to sell through Vectis but they still take a chunk out of your profit but seeing as I have not sold through them myself I'm not sure how much they take off you.

http://www.vectis.co.uk/

I know they have regular meets in Rugby and also Thornaby and they also advertise as far as I am aware for their auctions on ebay as well.

I hope this helps.
 

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I have been buying and selling via enthusiast mags, trading days, and latterly enthusiast websites, in a range of hobby interests for over 40 years and have only experienced a few innocent mistakes in that time, all of which have been sorted out easily. You rarely get amazingly cheap bargains, nor do you achieve the highest possible price on sales: but to balance that neither do you have to count your fingers every time after 'shaking hands'. That's life, it is up to the individual to choose the environment that is a good fit for their temperament and outlook.
 

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Vectis are probably better for the higher end collectables if you are not in too much of a hurry - I looked at some items a couple of years ago, but to be honest, too slow for me, also (if I remember correctly) they also charge the buyer as well, making the items more expensive.

To me, its the total price it costs to get it to my door.
 

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QUOTE (Piermaster @ 29 Jun 2008, 09:44) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Hi all,

I've cut and pasted this across from another forum:
Just had a snotty message from eBay withdrawing one of my items from sale because of a complaint that I don't accept PayPal.

Dave

I've never had problems with PayPal; they've always been efficient in sending & receiving £, Euros and US$. As Brian said, you have to be careful of e-mails purporting to come from PayPal and eBay - I usually forward them onto [email protected] or [email protected] I find Paypal easier for buying and selling than cheques and postal orders or cash, although I do accept those if the buyer insists. I'm a very small buyer/seller, and my only problem transaction was with a buyer who insisted on paying by cheque, but as I didn't send him the goods all it cost was some wasted time.

So, I would advise PayPal for both buying and selling on eBay (with caution caveats above)

mal
 

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QUOTE (zmil @ 30 Jun 2008, 11:28) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>In Australia eBay are trying to make PayPal the only method of payment , for all transactions , apart from items
picked up in person ,
Now, if that is the case I agree that it is wrong. However, I do not see any problem with Ebay requiring private sellers to accept Paypal as long as other methods of payment are also available.
 

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Hi Brian
I agree 100% eBayers from all over the world are watching what is happening in Australia.


First the new feedback system and the manipulations of the search facility
(try looking for your own items by searching for a key word in the description, you will find only 5 out of all your items .Unless you are a power seller, or you have a eBay store )

The ACCC may have put a hold on eBay though. They had a public hearing today

Excuse the lengthy post but here is a report of the hearing

Zmil

eBay assailed over PayPal plans

Asher Moses
June 30, 2008 - 5:24PM

Angry eBay sellers labelled the auction site "monolithic and dictatorial" at a conference convened today to help the competition regulator decide whether to allow eBay to force all sellers to use only PayPal for accepting electronic payments.

The conference was supposed to give eBay and the aggrieved sellers a final chance to persuade the Australian Competition and Computer Commission to accept their view, however, eBay virtually refused to participate in the discussion.

The ACCC already signalled its intentions to reject the policy earlier this month on the grounds it would lessen competition in the online payments market and deny consumers choice.

The regulator is now accepting further submissions from the public before its July 3 deadline, after which it will make a final decision.

The controversial policy will mean all items must be paid for using PayPal - which eBay owns - or cash on delivery/pick-up. Direct bank deposits, cheques and money orders will all be barred.

The policy, which will increase fees for sellers because PayPal charges them for each transaction, was originally slated to come into effect on June 17 but eBay has since postponed the move until after the ACCC has made its final decision.

At the conference today, sellers rejected eBay's claims that PayPal was significantly safer than other payment methods and insisted that eBay allow them choice over what payment method they used.

"I think that if they were allowed to perform this kind of a restricted trading arrangement, then two years from now when you go to Woolies to get your groceries, you're going to have to use a Woolworths credit card, and you're going to have to pay them for the privilege," said Bill Gessner, who has been a casual eBay trader for over four years.

In addition to hundreds of sellers, The Reserve Bank of Australia and the Australian Bankers Association wrote to the ACCC to complain about eBay's proposed policy. But only sellers chose to speak at the conference today.

eBay Australia managing director Simon Smith, visibly frustrated by the number of barbs fired in his direction, read from a prepared statement and would not answer any further questions.

Smith did not present any new arguments to the ACCC, saying again that the eBay policy was driven by the need to enhance security.

He said buyers were four times less likely to end up in a dispute with a seller if they used PayPal to pay for an item. He argued that without the PayPal-only policy both eBay and sellers would lose out because people would leave eBay.

In response, seller Anthony Green said: "The reality is that a payment method is only as safe as the person making the payment."

Dale Clapperton, chair of the online users' lobby group Electronic Frontiers Australia, said people would not leave eBay altogether if they were defrauded on the site. Instead, they would rationally opt for a different payment method in future and didn't need their hand forced by eBay.

Graham Bowen, an eBay seller who flew down from Queensland to read a statement signed by 1860 eBay users, stressed that people should be able to select a payment method on their own. If other methods were locked out, PayPal would have no incentive to keep its fees low.

"It is interesting to note that there has been no outcry among eBay users to have enhanced security, let alone to have PayPal as the only effective method of payment," he said.

"It is the Australian way to support having choices - I am seventh generation by the way - which as the ACCC has pointed out, we're well able to make for ourselves."

Green noted that, already, all material on eBay's site conveyed the message that payment methods other than PayPal were not safe and did not have appropriate fraud protections.

"This is tantamount to tricking buyers into believing they have no alternative but to use PayPal," Green said.

Many sellers complained that PayPal's customer service was lacking. They warned that overseas-based PayPal, unlike banks, did not have an overarching watchdog buyers could contact to complain or appeal decisions.

Some sellers questioned whether eBay and PayPal had the financial reserves to withstand a "run on the bank" should a large number of users choose to pull money out of their PayPal accounts at once.

Clapperton compared eBay's policy to a Ford car dealer forcing a buyer to have their car serviced only at authorised repair shops.

"eBay's argument seems to boil down to the fact that their users aren't smart enough to choose the best payment option according to how eBay define what the best option is, and therefore for their own good that choice must be forced upon them," he said.
 

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Very good, here's hoping ebay lose this one. Even though I rarely sell on ebay I think if it was accepted ebay forcing seller's to use paypal "a massive injustice to sellers worldwide" that my opinion.

Thanks for the post.

m
 

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QUOTE (zmil @ 30 Jun 2008, 12:31) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Some sellers questioned whether eBay and PayPal had the financial reserves to withstand a "run on the bank" should a large number of users choose to pull money out of their PayPal accounts at once.
Be interesting to know how much PayPal is sitting on - must be a tidy pile - maybe they lend it on the money markets ? The must have some sort of figure that the total never drops below.

Lets hope that they never do a "Northern Rock".
 

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QUOTE (Brian Considine @ 30 Jun 2008, 23:21) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Be interesting to know how much PayPal is sitting on - must be a tidy pile - maybe they lend it on the money markets ? The must have some sort of figure that the total never drops below.

Lets hope that they never do a "Northern Rock".

***Very Very unlikely... Paypal is also used for a lot of commercial transactions especially in USA, not just consumer Ebay stuff which is the smaller part of their business- its bigger than some credit card companies and very many banks in total revenues with B all overheads or staff costs - overall its a real cash cow for Ebay.

Its Naiive to think that Ebay consumers could hurt them... A few Australian Ebay users (or all of them in fact) not using Ebay might shave their total profit but it wouldn't even be felt in structural terms...

Richard
DCCconcepts
 

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Ebay, Paypal, Lloyds, Natwest, Barclays, Abbey, HSBC etc. etc are according to my email inbox and spam folder continually sending me notices about my account and how they need to update my records. I have had so many of these that I have now stopped sending them onto the real; ebay, paypal, banks etc. due to time constraints. If you visit the banks etc web sites FRAUD area it tells you what to do with phissing mail etc., basically disregard it as they will never ask for you details in an email.

I was stung by a fraud action on my Abbey credit card in March, £7500 in total which Abbey repaid but it took me 25 phone calls to sort out and a lot of time.

I do use paypal and veri sign but am extremely wary about this now a days. My latest idea was to get one company to reduce the credit limit to a very small level so that the max that could be taken from the card was very limited.

Word of advice, even though the system is now chip and pin, make a note of the three (3) security code numbers on the rear of the card and then SCRATCH them off. No shop or retailer needs to handle the card under chip and pin they dont need these only over the phone or internet are they required. This stops fuel stations (a favourite cloning place) etc. getting the info they need for fraudulent use of your card/s
 

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Hi All

Here is an update on the eBay - PayPal saga

By John Oates → More by this author
Published Wednesday 2nd July 2008 11:18 GMT
Nail down your security priorities. Ask the experts and your peers at The Register Security Debate, September 24 2008.

eBay Australia's attempt to force all sellers to use PayPal is failing to win over users and still faces a competition investigation.

The online auction house has suspended introduction of the scheme while the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission investigates it. The ACCC has already said that it is concerned that eBay is using its dominant position in online auctions to lessen competition in another market - online payments.

At a meeting held earlier this week eBay failed to answer users' concerns that the decision was more to do with improving eBay's margins than the purported fraud reductions claimed. Under the proposals all transactions on eBay would have to be made using PayPal or cash on delivery.

eBay's Australian managing director Simon Smith read a prepared statement but refused to answer follow-up questions. The meeting, called by the ACCC, was attended by about 50 people although many claimed to represent hundreds of other traders. Certainly forum discussions on the issue have collected hundreds of responses.

The Australian policy is predicted to spread to the rest of the world - eBay UK made it compulsory to offer PayPal earlier this year but sellers can also offer other payment methods. In the US eBay sellers who ship items outside the country are also required to offer PayPal as an option. ®
 

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QUOTE (zmil @ 3 Jul 2008, 02:46) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>......eBay UK made it compulsory to offer PayPal earlier this year but sellers can also offer other payment methods............

Not quite right - If your 'score' is more than 100, then you can opt out of PayPal, if it is less than that, your Payment Instructions screen automatically ticks PayPal by default, whether you are registered with PayPal or not.

I just had a particulary rough time and heated debate on another forum, where tempers were frayed and things were getting personal. I managed to silence the critics and cynics with my closing post which is:

Gentlemen,

The title of this topic and the main question is, I repeat Is there an alternative to eBay? That has been answered very well and 'Thank You' to those who have helped me with their useful suggestions and I am using one of the alternative sites. As each of my items for sale are being removed by eBay, (thanks to whoever is getting some personal gratification in trying to prevent me from selling my items as I originally wished) I am transferring them to this other auction site.

End of main issue.

When I registered on eBay, I chose to accept cheque and postal orders - my choice and at that time there was no compulsory requirement to use Paypal. fine by me, fine by eBay - no problem there.

Then almost out of the blue eBay changed the goalposts, firstly in Australia and almost suddenly elsewhere in the world and as a new member (less than a 100 score), I had no choice, no options and not allowed any consultation. This thread started off as a meaningful request and has turned into a 'playground fight' by others. Gentlemen, if you wish to fight amongst yourselves, please don't do it in public here. Others are watching this forum and I for one don't want them to have a feeding frenzy....


Because of their specialist nature (Limited Edition, high-quality HO scale Wagons-Lits coaches), I know that they will sell on an auction site and that is why I posted them there rather that a forums 'For Sale' page.

Dave
 
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