Is Z gauge viable for British prototype?

39806 Views 40 Replies 28 Participants Last post by Prescotian, Oct 6, 2019

Ravenser

Discussion Starter · Sep 21, 2006

As this section of the forum seems a bit dead, thought I'd give it a poke....

October's RM contains an article on Brian Yallup's Z gauge branch terminus, Aldeburgh. Someone may correct me , but I think this is the first "authentic" model of a British prototype ever done in Z.

I haven't seen the magazine yet (tomorrow maybe) but I have seen the layout at a show. It's a total scratchbuild job , I think to dead scale, looks nice, but when I saw it , the scratchbuilt J15 was struggling to pull anything including itself. The B12 was running rather better , but a J15 is a pretty small loco in any scale. In Z , the boiler's about 6mm diameter. It's arguable you just can't get any meaningful weight in it

To build the layout at all is a remarkable achievement , and one way beyond me -no criticism of the modeller is meant , as anyone with a long term commitment to scratchbuilding in this scale demands a lot of respect - but is this scale getting beyond what is practical and workable?

I was at a show recently where there was a US N gauge layout, and it struck me that the autoracks running were longer and higher than my 4mm British wagons , albeit thinner. (in fact you'd be getting close to some pregrouping coaches The locos were longer than my 4mm shunters and about as tall, though of course much thinner

I know there's RTR US outline in Z , but is the problem that British stock is just too small for some of the smallest gauges? US N gauge models can get pretty large compared to ours...

1 - 20 of 41 Posts

Gary

· #2 · Sep 21, 2006 (Edited by Moderator)

Had this very conversation at Warley Model Railway Club 2 weeks ago with the N gauge modellers.

The conclusion was that Z gauge could be used to make a reasonable Welsh narrow gauge layout in British N scale (Ne or N6.5) or could be used to model the Romney, Hythe and Dymchurch Railway or Fairbourne Railway or such like in OO scale. British N scale is bigger than continental N scale.

Checking out the Peco website they do make Z gauge track but you would need Marklin points.

The point about this is that you could use standard off the shelf British N scale or OO scale scenery and buildings and incorporate something into a bigger layout.

Happy modelling
Gary

PS in all truth I didn't know we had this section!!!

How many times have I visited MRF.....

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neil_s_wood

· #3 · Sep 21, 2006

I think if you are going to model Z gauge in anything other than Maerklin product you will be making it yourself. Maybe there are US manufacturers too but the only mass market widely available European one is Maerklin that I'm aware of.

I have to say that I think N gauge is a bit too small and Z is getting silly unless you have some sort of novelty in mind e.g a coffee table layout.

British outline is smaller than US or German which is why we have OO rather than HO. Whether UK outline is too small is subjective as, I would have thought, Z gauge is too small for most modellers anyway.

One thing is for sure you will be making the locos yourself and you have crossed the border from modelling into jeweller/ watchmaking territory.

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Brian Considine

· #4 · Oct 5, 2006 (Edited by Moderator)

I have seen at least 2 Z gauge British outline layouts on the south-east exhibition circuit - both using scratchbuit bodies & Marklin track & mechanisms. Both running well & looking good (defective memory for names). The mainland european kit manufacturs make a variety of buildings in Z that could be "anglisised" so UK outline Z is feasible.

Also seen have been a number of 15" gauge trains running on OO layouts & if you really want a small portable layout Noch do a battery/mains one in a briefcase.

(I've just seen the other thread regarding briefcase layouts so that info is old news.)

regards
Brian

7113

· #5 · Nov 8, 2006

"I have seen at least 2 Z gauge British outline layouts on the south-east exhibition circuit - both using scratchbuit bodies & Marklin track & mechanisms. Both running well & looking good (defective memory for names)." "Also seen have been a number of 15" gauge trains running on OO layouts"

I too have seen a couple of British Z layouts on the SE exhibition circuit, most recently in Folkestone, I know one's an LNER prototype with loco bodies made of brass and rolling stock from plasticard, but I can't find the show guide (!!)

Additionally I did think of doing a 5" garden layout as a bit of fun, using Z gauge locos with modified stock, this equates to approximately 1/24 scale so no problems with road vehicles.

Regards

John

Makemineadouble

· #6 · Nov 8, 2006

2

I saw a magnificent Z gauge layout at rail Wells this year, and I was impressed. It certainly wasn't British outline, but it ran well, looked good, and kept my intrest alot longer than some of the 0 gauge stuff.

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ozwarrior

· #7 · Nov 9, 2006

I came across this site but know nothing about them.

http://www.americanzline.com/

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7113

· #8 · Nov 9, 2006

quote = ozwarrior "I came across this site but know nothing about them."

I haven't checked it out but Marklin do US outline Z, I guess that's what it's about.

Also I lied...The Z gauge UK outline layout I saw was at Maidstone not Folkestone, the layout is called Aldeburgh and it is quite superb.

Regards

John

Gary

· #9 · Feb 13, 2007

I guess the limited interest in British Z gauge since November suggests that it is not a viable commercial option! Z Club GB were in attendance at Warley and there are a number of resin bodies that they do for those who might be interested in running British Z gauge.

Happy modelling
Gary

mthornton

· #10 · Feb 13, 2007

QUOTE (dbclass50 @ 5 Oct 2006, 05:48) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I have seen at least 2 Z gauge British outline layouts on the south-east exhibition circuit
"Loosely Warren" was at the Chelmsford MRC exhibition last October.

Peter_Harvey

· #11 · Feb 13, 2007

Would it be possible to make you own points in Z in a similar way as done in OO instead of using Marklin points I would assume all you would need is a track gauge some rails from a peco flexi track, copper clad sleepers and some good quality files oh and last of all allot of patents.

Pete

John Webb

· #12 · Feb 13, 2007

Peco do sell their Code 60 rail (as used in their Z gauge Streamline track) as a separate item - Part No. IL-1 pack of 6off 24inch lengths for £4.45, according to their price list.
Regards,
John Webb

7113

· #13 · Feb 13, 2007

QUOTE (Peter_Harvey @ 13 Feb 2007, 12:23) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Would it be possible to make you own points in Z in a similar way as done in OO instead of using Marklin points I would assume all you would need is a track gauge some rails from a peco flexi track, copper clad sleepers and some good quality files oh and last of all allot of patents.

Pete

Brian Harrap of "Zob" fame has built a Z layout in P6.5, although not a UK outline layout it does show what can be done. Updates on this are to de found in the GRS journal "Merkur"

Regards

John

billhko

· #14 · Sep 10, 2008

QUOTE (Ravenser @ 21 Sep 2006, 14:23) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>As this section of the forum seems a bit dead, thought I'd give it a poke....

I know there's RTR US outline in Z , but is the problem that British stock is just too small for some of the smallest gauges? US N gauge models can get pretty large compared to ours...

I have only yesterday joined this forum. I am in Z scale so I came to this topic.

I wanted to address the specific topic of Z scale British stock.

I only recently learned of this link: http://www.exact-messebau.de/minilok/start.htm

The second item on the left column says:

NS 500/600/700
BR Class08/09

Clicking on this led to The NS 'Hippel' 0-6-0 diesel shunter.

If Larry can build this in Z scale, almost any British outline diesel can be done in Z.

A few of us here in Southern California had dinner with Larry a few days ago and he says that he has no desire to produce any of his models for sale. To produce a few for himself is enjoyable but to produce many copies for sale is work.

Soon, perhaps we will have a "Hippel in T scale.

Bill
El Toro, CA

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Edwin

· #15 · Sep 10, 2008

There was a British Z layout "Standen Watchett" at the Loughborough exhibition two or three years back. And didn't Maerklin announce a Class 87 and Mk3 coaches some time in the late 70s?

7113

· #16 · Sep 10, 2008

QUOTE (billhko @ 10 Sep 2008, 18:49) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Clicking on this led to The NS 'Hippel' 0-6-0 diesel shunter.

Or as we call 'em - gronks, though I have no idea why!

Regards

BritishZ

· #17 · Nov 8, 2008

This really is a small part of the forum!

Does it reflect a lack of interest in British outline Z?

But then there was no demend for a round wheel - until someone invented it!

In addition to Germany Z is very popular in America and getting popular in Japan - search "MTL Z" and "Pro Z"

Here are some photos I took of Z Gauge British outline. They include the layouts mentioned above.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/planestv

Everything is scratch built or heavily modified

I think there would be a big take up for British Z Gauge and an enterprising cottage industry could make a lot of money.

Some put the emphasis on packing something into a briefcase but I think they miss the point. Z's big appeal is no tight curves, close coupling and scale length trains. And scale length trains mean lots of coaches and wagons sold.

Imagine a basic Mk1 coach with plain clear plastic sides. Then add appropriate liveried sides, punched out windows and pad-printed details. A plain wagon and box van could be the basis of a big variety using the stick-on-sides idea.

The market's wide open for someone who can do a deal with Marklin, MTL or AZL for running gear.

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Rowan

· #18 · Nov 9, 2008

Standen Watchett is a beautiful layout, with great piccys.Thanks BritishZ.
Any more information on this layout?

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73johnathan

· #19 · Dec 8, 2008

BritishZ I don't suppose you noticed what the DMU were based around or upon. Any information on the basis for these locomtives would be interesting.

rossi

· #20 · Dec 8, 2008

I believe a British outline class 47 was once produced ,in the eighties I think .I did see one in shop so it wasn't a daydream.Not that well up on UK locos at the time so not totally sure it was a 47 .

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