[Gary]

In response to correspondence about why certain items of rolling stock are produced in certain colours the editor of Model Rail Express magazine offered up the following thought:-

QUOTE While I know Dick intends his comments to be light hearted, his questioning why anybody would buy the BR SR green RFO stirs up a hobbyhorse of mine. What is correct railway practice to a railway enthusiast is a foreign language to the vast majority of the population and that includes many (indeed most) people who buy model railway equipment. As a boy, my passenger trains had to have all the coaches in the same colour and each had a brake end and a restaurant car as well as 'ordinary' coaches. With that I was happy because my knowledge of railway practice was very limited (and still is). I believe that the major of model railway purchasers are ignorant of real railway practice and will buy anything if they like it - and why not? 'Ignorance is bliss' and they may well get greater pleasure from their hobby than an enthusiast who is always worrying about authenticity. I rest my case - Ed.

Do some of us worry too much and do those who are not bothered enjoy greater pleasure from the hobby?

I enjoy putting together wagons of the same colour even though they may never have operated together. It just looks nice and tidy. A few Saxa Salt vans and Fyffes Banana vans and private owner wagons all yellow looks pretty good. Same with coaches. If they are all green I am happy and that would include any baggage vans. There may even be collectors who collect rolling stock of the same colour and thats all they operate.

A blue loco should have blue coaches or rolling stock and a green loco similar. It looks right even if it is not right. Its easier to achieve this with BR diesels than anything else and the 1960's and 1970's is a good period for the colour co-ordinated modeller.

Each to their own and may all be classified as model railway hobbyists.

Are there any here who dare admit to similar practices?

Happy modelling
Gary

 

[pedromorgan]

in a word YES.

I do like authenticity but not at the expence of looks. i would never have an odd coach in the rake. they should all look uniform and smart.

Also I dont particularly care which country the stock is from. I will hapily run american stock with brittish and chinese and german.

Its my railway and I run what I like and I have a great time!

a pet hate of mine is people who say they model the line between xxxxx and xxxxx between the 1st of june and the 19th of november in 1961 and i cant have that loco because it dosent fit.

for goodness sakes man - life is just too short for that kind of thing.

Peter

 

[darobi]

I think it's a bigger issue for the modern era models of the last 10 years or so. There are all sorts of liveries out there at the mo and quite a few engines in different colours from the same company, EWS stands head and shoulders above the rest for that one. I have the mainline blue 60 with some seacows and MEA's in blue, but the same number on the MEA's!!

I run what I like but just wish they could all be weathered, but that is another debate!!

Darren

 

[Dennis David]

QUOTE a pet hate of mine is people who say they model the line between xxxxx and xxxxx between the 1st of june and the 19th of november in 1961 and i cant have that loco because it dosent fit.

Then you wouldn't like Amercan model railroading because that's exactly what many people do here.

 

[7113]

It's one of the joys of modelling BR in the steam/diesel/electric changeover period. I have a number of photos in my collection which show many weird and wonerful carriage arrangements. Two particular cases spring to mind, firstly a Merchant Navy with a rake of blue/grey and green coaches at Waterloo in 1967 and secondly a class 77 with a mixture of green, maroon and blue/grey coaches. Anything goes!!

Regards

John

 

[Gwent rail]

I too am ready to admit to the "if it looks right it is right" school of thought.

Whilst it seems sensible to use a favourite prototype and era as a guide to producing the correct atmosphere, I think it is sad that some of our more fastidious brethren will reject a good model because "That never ran up our valley in that livery", or some other similar gripe.

Pedro has hit the nail on the head in his post, "it's my layout and I run what I like" and "for goodness sakes man - life is just too short".

So all you 100 percenters, get a life, let your hair down and have some fun!!
British, Continental and American all on the same layout Pedro?? Now there's an idea!!

 

[rb277170]

I do think I used to have more fun in my youth or when just setting out than now. In these days I didn't have enough stock to run correct trains so my Blue Hymek mixed with The Flying Scotsman and Black 9F etc

Recently I feel guilty if mixing periods and tend to run Pre Nationalisation, BR Transition, BR Blue, Modern .
However I think one of the most exciting periods (and one seldom modelled) is 1965-1698 ie Blue grey corporate image rubbing shoulders with the last days of steam. Blue/grey,Maroon,Green coaching stock all mixed. On the Southern you can have Merchant Navies, west countries blue and green diesels. In the north west black 5s ,Britannias etc. So no uniform rakes for me!

Russell

 

[dwb]

>for goodness sakes man - life is just too short for that kind of thing.
which is why I don't build my own coaches

but I have decided to build up a collection of Parkside wagons because they are easy to build, I get more variety and given that I like to have different running numbers and Kadee couplings on them, it is more convenient.

I get as much pleasure from seeking out the information in the first place as I do from putting it all together and then sitting back for all of 10 minutes and watching it run.

100% correct is never going to happen - the source of motive power is wrong for a start, and there's no point in following that thought really - it's already a compromise.

So build what you like, how you like and run whatever; I mightn't like it, but hey, it's not my railway and I wasn't aware I was in a competition.

David

 

[neil_s_wood]

I recently had one of my reviews slagged off the other day on another thread because I didn't include specific information on whether the model reviewed was precisely to scale or not. This was in relation to debate on the practice of some European railway models express coaches being less than scale length. I didn't really see scale as being a big issue as the length of the coach was provided and if it was something which was a big issue to you you could go off and check somewhere.

Now I have noticed that none of Dougs or Garys reviews mention scale as an issue either so I don't know why my reviews got slagged off, but the point is, is a slight difference really noticeable, does anyone really care if it's 2% out scale wise as long as works fine and makes the model more affordable and functional? If you want 100% accuracy it is available at a cost from Brawa and MicroMetakit but it's not cheap and it wont run on anything less than a metre radius. The reality is that we have to accept compromise in various ways because of layout size limitations whether it is rail gauge or coach length. Most people don't have much space to build a layout in and have to deal with this fact. While in an ideal world it would be great to have everything perfect prototypically and scale wise the realty is that this doesn't happen.

I for one have a hundred and one better things to do with my life than go measuring coaches to see how accurate they are. If they look ok and are fully functional then really what's the big problem. It's nice to have accurate models but very few people would know if they weren't and they cost more money. Most of the models I have, I have never seen in real life so I wouldn't know if they were 100% accurate or not and my life has not deteriorated to the point where I am going to spend hours finding this out. I am more concerned with whether they work ok and are reliable and what they do and don't do in terms of functions.

I think the rivet counters forget that this is about fun and not one upmanship. They are a bit over focussed on one single issue and not looking at the bigger picture. It's this aspect of the hobby which gives railway modelling a bad name and which puts people off the hobby. It's the same with this prototype thing. If I see a model I like I buy it, I don't really give a monkeys if it fits in with my layout. I choose models on their relaibiliy, build quality, their features and if they look good. I'm not really interested in narrow minded people imposing their views on my layout. As long as you're having fun that's the main thing.

 

[Gary]

I totally agree with the above 100%.

I never put callipers on models and I do have a set! I may compare it with the odd image or two and if a model is a good representation then in my book the manufacturer has done a good job.

The comments of the Editor of Model Rail Express magazine probably equally apply to those who demand 100% model accuracy as to those who insist that they should be offered the rolling stock to accurately model the 11:15 from London to Bournemouth on 24th September 1962!

Happy modelling
Gary

 

[dwb]

>I never put callipers on models and I do have a set!
I think I would (sad isn't it?) run a vernier on steam locomotive driving wheels and the spacing of the driving axles. My pretext is that in books on locomotive development, the driving wheel diameter is a key aspect of the locomotive's design. The spacing affects the general view.

Now I don't think I'd worry if something was say 0.5 mm out either way which is about real world 1.5" in OO. So if I discovered that Hornby used the same drivers on a Duchess and an LNER Pacific, I don't think I'm going to lose sleep over it and I haven't mentioned counting the spokes.... zzzzz

David

 

[neil_s_wood]

QUOTE I may compare it with the odd image or two and if a model is a good representation then in my book the manufacturer has done a good job. I honestly beleive that this would be the view of at least 99% of railway modellers.

At the end of the day we are spending our money on products and it is entirely up to us what we do with them. While it would be nice to be 100% historically accurate, our layouts are in our homes and not in museums and have no obligation to do anything other than entertain us.

 

[pedromorgan]

"does anyone really care if it's 2% out scale wise as long as works fine and makes the model more affordable and functional?"
no but i would care if it was an inch too short. I know some of the ICE coaches are!

When reading this thread this morning i realised i have a foot in 2 worlds here. although i dont mind running continental and various other stock side buy side i do care about detail very much. i want each model to be right. i do care if things are wrong that i cant fix.

Peter

 

[neil_s_wood]

QUOTE no but i would care if it was an inch too short. I know some of the ICE coaches are! If you're reffering to coaches which are supposed to be 1/87 and are actually 1/100 my understanding is that this practise stopped and some express coaches are 1/92. To be honest, while I would ideally like it 100% to scale , if I am not familiar with something then I'm unlikely to know. If a perfect model is not available then if it's something I really want then I would rather have a slightly out of scale than not have an item.

Which ICE coaches were you talking about, the Fleischmann ones?

 

[pedromorgan]

"If a perfect model is not available then if it's something I really want then I would rather have a slightly out of scale than not have an item."
I could not agree more. thats why i have been pestering hornby to do something with their back catalouge for the last 10 years. it seems that has finally paid off.

My understanding is that nobody has produced coaches for the ICE1 that are the correct length. i have seen pictures of 3 manufacturers coaches side by side and they are all different lengths!

Peter

 

[neil_s_wood]

QUOTE My understanding is that nobody has produced coaches for the ICE1 that are the correct length. i have seen pictures of 3 manufacturers coaches side by side and they are all different lengths! I can see why. The ICE 1 which is made by Maerklin and Roco are usually served up in their kids starter sets and look a bit toy like. The Fleischmann is supposed to be a good quality model but as I am unfamiliar with Fleischman and don't have a model of the ICE 1 I couldn't really comment.

I have the Trix ICE 3 and it looks pretty acurate when compared with pictures but I will confess that I have not measured it.

 

[7113]

QUOTE (rb277170 @ 30 Jan 2007, 17:19) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I think one of the most exciting periods (and one seldom modelled) is 1965-1698 ie Blue grey corporate image rubbing shoulders with the last days of steam. Blue/grey,Maroon,Green coaching stock all mixed. On the Southern you can have Merchant Navies, west countries blue and green diesels. In the north west black 5s ,Britannias etc. So no uniform rakes for me!

Russell

On my current project, set west of Salisbury, I too am using the "mix and match" approach to rolling stock. As a result of this I have locos in green, blue and maroon, with coaches in green, maroon and blue/grey. Yes some rakes are uniform, but others are assorted, strangely enough it looks right.

Regards

John

 

[ozwarrior]

A couple of years ago when Hornby brought out the mk2s in Anglia turquoise livery but the restaurant in intercity because it was prototypical annoyed me!

I'd rather they were all the same livery!
On a related thought I'd rather have a Mk4 dvt dressed in Mk3 clothes if a rtr mk3 isn't available than nothing at all.
I'd rather Hornby did incorrect mk2s to go with the Caledonian sleepers than none at all because it's unprototypical.

I have a Roco mid 80s rake of red-cream (tee?) coaches which are 1:100. I was only recently told this. I never realised the superior continental market was so flexible!

I was told it was because the distance between curved set track is 50mm compared with 67mm in the UK.
Even now my ideal rake of 6 would be a full brake; brake comp; restaurant; first and two seconds. If 7 then throw in a sleeper!

 

[Graham Plowman]

QUOTE (pedromorgan @ 30 Jan 2007, 19:51) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>a pet hate of mine is people who say they model the line between xxxxx and xxxxx between the 1st of june and the 19th of november in 1961 and i cant have that loco because it dosent fit.

for goodness sakes man - life is just too short for that kind of thing.

In my opinion, it is this viewpoint which determines the difference between people who are building a 'model railway' and people who are 'playing with toy trainsets'.

Those who apply standards end up with a better result. Those who do not, end up with a toy trainset.

Personally, I apply standards and try to recreate a scene as reallistically as I can to represent what I see in books and what I can remember:

http://mrol.gppsoftware.com

What you tend to find at exhibitions is that this kind of layout gets far more attention from the public than a trainset does.

Graham Plowman

 

[Ravenser]

Just to add that I used to see the Anglia Mk1 buffet from time to time , sandwiched in the middle of a turquiose rake, so I'm glad Hornby did it . It was the last Mk1 in front line service on the railway.