Model Railway Forum banner
1 - 14 of 14 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
31 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi,
Can anyone tell me when these were withdrawn? I've a vague recollection of seeing one in the Birmingham area around 1962/3, but after all this time it could be a figment of my imagination!
I'm building a layout based sometime in 1963 and I'd like to include one. Come to think of it, I've never seen a photo of this pairing with a late BR crest on the tender?
I'd be gateful for any help.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
9,844 Posts
In "The book of Jubilees" Ed Chris Haskins. Published Irwell Press Ltd. ISBN 1-903266-27-0 there is a whole chapter on the subject of Jubilees and the seven different tenders attached at various times to the class. The book includes a table of tender changes compiled by Brassmasters. If you are serious about the accuracy of your Jubilee, you need this book.

From my reading of the table and then cross checking against the detailed loco data later in the book, it is recorded

45609 was withdrawn in September 1960 while paired with a Fowler 3500 gallon flush rivets panelled
45679 was withdrawn in December 1962 while paired with a Fowler 3500 gallon snap-headed rivets with non-beaded tanks
45696 "Arethusa" was withdrawn in July 1964 while paired with a Fowler 3500 gallon flush rivets panelled
45704 was withdraw in January 1965 while paired with a Fowler 3500 gallon snap-headed rivets with beaded tanks. There is a 7th April 1964 of this locomotive at Willesden which clear shows the late BR crest on the tender.
45707 was withdrawn in December 1962 while paired with a Fowler 3500 gallon flush rivets panelled
45711 was withdrawn in December 1962 while paired with a Fowler 3500 gallon flush rivets panelled
45713 was withdrawn in October 1962 while paired with a Fowler 3500 gallon flush rivets panelled
45714 was withdrawn in July 1963 while paired with a Fowler 3500 gallon flush rivets panelled
45715 was withdrawn in December 1962 while paired with a Fowler 3500 gallon flush rivets panelled
45716 was withdrawn in September 1964 while paired with a Fowler 3500 gallon snap-headed rivets with non-beaded tanks
45718 was withdrawn in October 1962 while paired with a Fowler 3500 gallon flush rivets panelled
45720 was withdrawn in December 1962 while paired with a Fowler 3500 gallon flush rivets panelled
45728 was withdrawn in October 1962 while paired with a Fowler 3500 gallon flush rivets panelled

Jubilees were subjected to a lot of tender swapping. Some of the locomotives listed above were paired with Stanier tenders for part of their careers.

David
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
560 Posts
QUOTE (dwb @ 13 Aug 2008, 20:22) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>45696 "Arethusa" was withdrawn in July 1964 while paired with a Fowler 3500 gallon flush rivets panelled

David

I'm special
only one mentioned by name

And mine has a Stanier because I think it looks nicer


Andii
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
9,844 Posts
QUOTE I'm special biggrin.gif only one mentioned by name

I thought you'd notice


It would appear from the book that Arethusa was never paired with a Stanier tender which may well make it unique.

Arethusa also appears as the background for the film select menu on the disk 1 of first BFI British Transport Films double DVD

David
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
560 Posts
QUOTE (dwb @ 14 Aug 2008, 18:38) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I thought you'd notice


It would appear from the book that Arethusa was never paired with a Stanier tender which may well make it unique.

David

All the pictures of her I've seen seem to support that, but as I have my railway in the land of make believe she's going to keep the Stanier tender. Although I could use this as an excuse to get another Jubillee


Andii
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
9,844 Posts
QUOTE in the land of make believe she's going to keep the Stanier tender. Although I could use this as an excuse to get another Jubillee

The excuse you need is that Arethusa has a long firebox and so far the Bachmann models are all short firebox. Without changes to the frames, short firebox locomotives could not be fitted with long firebox boilers. Five short firebox locomotives were so modified but I think at this point I should direct interested parties to buy the book? Then there's the rivet question in relation to the front buffer beam which for counters is either 0 or quite a few
So you really do need another Jubilee and so long as your SWMBO (or whatever term you prefer) doesn't find out my address or email, you can say I said so
.

David
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
31 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
QUOTE (dwb @ 14 Aug 2008, 22:39) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>The excuse you need is that Arethusa has a long firebox and so far the Bachmann models are all short firebox.

David

Am I right in thinking that the older Mainline/Bachmann model is a long firebox version?
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
9,844 Posts
Please forgive me for "copping out" with this reply, but at the end of the week, I'm not quite ready to retrieve the Jubilee book from the loft one more time.

This is what I wrote in the Jubilee review
QUOTE One result of the change in superheating was a modification to the firebox internals. Instead of a vertical throat plate, the firebox was given a sloping throat plate. The visible result of this change is a longer firebox with six rather five washout plugs on the left hand side.

So if you can find photos of the left hand side of the old model, you will have your answer. Get to six and it's a long firebox.

If you can't find a photo another indicator is that the long firebox was introduced as part of the measures to improve steaming. Since this also required frame modification, it follows that long fireboxes are fitted to later builds. The names given to the first locomotives were from regions of The Empire - "Hong Kong", "Australia" being obvious examples. There is a large number of these. Several "themes" were used for later locomotives such as warship names - Arethusa for example - and admirals. So if an old model is not carrying the name of a region of The Empire, then it's probably got a long firebox.

David
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
560 Posts
I believe that the Mainline and by default the old Bachmann Jubes are the long firebox version but don't go by the name of the model as the donor I got for my Arethusa was a Western Austrailia, which going on what DWB has said above should have been a short firebox version. I may be wrong and often am so don't take this a gospel.

Andii
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
9,844 Posts
QUOTE I believe that the Mainline and by default the old Bachmann Jubes are the long firebox version but don't go by the name of the model as the donor I got for my Arethusa was a Western Austrailia, which going on what DWB has said above should have been a short firebox version. I may be wrong and often am so don't take this a gospel.

I'm going to have to get the book down after all now before I write the next bit....

5568 "Western Australia" was built by NBL in August 1934 with a short fire box. 5568 was not converted to accept a long fire box although 5567 was...

5664 "Nelson" was built at Derby in January 1935 with a short fire box

5665 "Lord Rutherford of Nelson" is the lowest numbered Jubilee to be built at Crewe in November 1935 with a long fire box.

I was careful to use the word "indicator" as before the advent of "Blue Riband" models, Bachmann were not so fastidious with getting the smaller details correct. I am therefore not surprised that a short fire box name would end up on a long firebox model.

You will note from the names of 5664 / 5665 that my assumption regarding admirals was incorrect. The theme sequence (assuming I have got the names for the themes correct) is:

Territories; admirals; naval battles; warships; early locomotives; Irish provinces;

5742 "Connaught" was the last built in December 1936. From ~1940 to 1955 it had a double chimney.

As I said earlier; if you are serious about an accurate Jubilee you need this book "The Book of Jubilees" - Irwell Press.

David
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
893 Posts
Don't forget the classical mythology figures, between the Naval Battles and the Warships : these even include that well known nymph of the Peloponnese - Arethusa.
6991
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
9,844 Posts
QUOTE Don't forget the classical mythology figures, between the Naval Battles and the Warships : these even include that well known nymph of the Peloponnese - Arethusa.

I made a sweeping assumption based on having read all the Hornblower novels and about half of Patrick O'Brian's Aubrey/Maturin series, that all those names were warships including Arethusa. Having belatedly done a Google on it, I turned up this Wikipedia entry which confirms that Arethusa has been used on eight warships by the Royal Navy, although it was the French who used the name first. Given the preceding naval theme, I still hold that they are warship names until the early locomotives.

David
 
1 - 14 of 14 Posts
Top