Lenz Silver into a Bachmann Fairburn tank

3224 Views 11 Replies 8 Participants Last post by dwb, Feb 14, 2007

icornish

Discussion Starter · Jan 31, 2007

After a little while away, I'm putting a Lenz silver into my (well run in) Fairburn tank.
Decoder works fine in other loco's, but when I follow Bachmann's instructions (which forbid removing the inductors and capacitors), I cannot program it on my Compact (Err 2).
Unfortunately, I've long lost the Compact manual, though I understand this means it cannot see the decoder.

Any thoughts how to program this? I cannot get the loco to move at all.

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mthornton

· #2 · Jan 31, 2007

The manuals can be found here:

http://www.lenz.com/manuals/index.htm

The Compact manual is

http://www.lenz.com/manuals/sets/compacte.pdf

I think you need to check your wiring. Do you have any other locos with a decoder that you can use to check that the programming track is working?

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icornish

Discussion Starter · #3 · Jan 31, 2007

Just checked... the programming track is working fine. Just programmed the same decoder in a different loco with no issues, but in the Fairburn, which is supposedly DCC ready, it does not register. Er 2 means the compact cannot see the decoder, so I suspect it is something to do with the inductors and stuff.
Before I hack around, anyone got any definitive experience?

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SPROGman

· #4 · Jan 31, 2007

QUOTE (icornish @ 31 Jan 2007, 10:50) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>After a little while away, I'm putting a Lenz silver into my (well run in) Fairburn tank.
Decoder works fine in other loco's, but when I follow Bachmann's instructions (which forbid removing the inductors and capacitors),

Just remove them. It can't make matters worse. The inductors are probably in series with the motor so you may need to replace thenm with a wire link.

Andrew Crosland

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icornish

Discussion Starter · #5 · Jan 31, 2007

Oh, why did I fear that! I was told at college my soldering was really bad!

Surely, DCC Ready means it should be plug and play, and not require soldering skills and stuff. Or am I just being naive?

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Makemineadouble

· #6 · Jan 31, 2007

personally I'd remove the plug and hardwire the decoder in it's a lot less work, more reliable, and will give you a much more controllable loco.

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dwb

· #7 · Jan 31, 2007

>Surely, DCC Ready means it should be plug and play, and not require soldering skills and stuff. Or am I just being naive?
The locomotive has to meet RFI emissions standards when it leaves the factory. On DC this means having capacitors and inductors somewhere between the pickups and the track. Now it would be nice to think that these suppression components required for DC could be mounted on the plug in circuit board. However in real life, the positioning of the suppression components is critical so maybe it's not possible.

The point is that it is the motor commutator that causes the interference through the constant make/break as it spins between the motor brushes. Once a decoder is supplying the juice to the motor, it becomes the decoder manufacturer's job to ensure suppression by a combination of on board components and drive software. This renders the original stuff redundant and depending on the values involved may modify the DCC signal received via the pickups before it gets to the decoder.

David

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Brian Considine

· #8 · Feb 13, 2007

QUOTE (dwb @ 31 Jan 2007, 20:20) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>The locomotive has to meet RFI emissions standards when it leaves the factory. On DC this means having capacitors and inductors somewhere between the pickups and the track. Now it would be nice to think that these suppression components required for DC could be mounted on the plug in circuit board. However in real life, the positioning of the suppression components is critical so maybe it's not possible.

The point is that it is the motor commutator that causes the interference through the constant make/break as it spins between the motor brushes. Once a decoder is supplying the juice to the motor, it becomes the decoder manufacturer's job to ensure suppression by a combination of on board components and drive software. This renders the original stuff redundant and depending on the values involved may modify the DCC signal received via the pickups before it gets to the decoder.

That's probably the best simple explaination I've seen on this subject.

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athegn

· #9 · Feb 13, 2007

"personally I'd remove the plug and hardwire the decoder in"

That is what I did when I put a Silver in my Fairburn and removed the two suppressors from the motor housing. Runs very well. Stops within a millimetre of the required spot when running under computer control.

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SPROGman

· #10 · Feb 14, 2007

QUOTE (dwb @ 31 Jan 2007, 20:20) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>>Surely, DCC Ready means it should be plug and play, and not require soldering skills and stuff. Or am I just being naive?
The locomotive has to meet RFI emissions standards when it leaves the factory. On DC this means having capacitors and inductors somewhere between the pickups and the track. Now it would be nice to think that these suppression components required for DC could be mounted on the plug in circuit board. However in real life, the positioning of the suppression components is critical so maybe it's not possible.

The point is that it is the motor commutator that causes the interference through the constant make/break as it spins between the motor brushes. Once a decoder is supplying the juice to the motor, it becomes the decoder manufacturer's job to ensure suppression by a combination of on board components and drive software. This renders the original stuff redundant and depending on the values involved may modify the DCC signal received via the pickups before it gets to the decoder.

David
One correction, if you leave the suppression components in place, they are between the decoder and the motor. They may affect the drive to the motor, but not the DCC signal to the decoder.

Andrew Crosland

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Ozzie21

· #11 · Feb 14, 2007

Remove the capacitors from the motor and the one on socket board, most DCC systems will see this as short due to the way they are arranged. The RF chokes on the socket can be left in place but it is best to remove them and solder a jumper wire in their place. My cousin installed a Gold decoder and had the same problem. After removal of the caps no problems were found programming the loco. As stated in another post all RF supression is provided by the decoder.

Ozzie21

QUOTE (icornish @ 31 Jan 2007, 21:50) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>After a little while away, I'm putting a Lenz silver into my (well run in) Fairburn tank.
Decoder works fine in other loco's, but when I follow Bachmann's instructions (which forbid removing the inductors and capacitors), I cannot program it on my Compact (Err 2).
Unfortunately, I've long lost the Compact manual, though I understand this means it cannot see the decoder.

Any thoughts how to program this? I cannot get the loco to move at all.

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dwb

· #12 · Feb 14, 2007

>One correction, if you leave the suppression components in place, they are between the decoder and the motor.

I bow to your superior experience. I was not presuming that the manufacturer would always put the capacitors that close to the motor end of the supply chain from track to motor.

David

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