QUOTE (Richard Johnson @ 8 Jul 2008, 12:02)
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>***Actually Nigel, I and many others also use computer related programmes from time to time in relation to DCC, but when a poster asks a simple question the best answer is a simple and direct one.
Which I did with respect to the "cut wires" question.
I see no harm in raising the programming issue as the thread had discussed the vagueness of Digitrax' decoder instructions, and implications of "prodding around" until finding the appropriate value for a CV for a particular decoder.
QUOTE As to Decoder pro, its an excellent and evolving project but doesn't replace the need to know and understand about use of CV's at all, so its not "quaint" or anything else setting CV's directly - it is standard usage for most modellers for other than basic setup which the controller usually takes care of just fine.
Which doesn't really square with various makers of command stations offering "easy" ways to setup decoders.
For example, the often recommended NCE PowerCab, has menu options to get round setting up certain CVs, ( as well as the option of directly setting up a CV by specific number). I guess NCE offered the special options to solve some user interface issues with managing common CV's, and the need to understand bits and binary to decimal conversions. The expensive ESU Ecos command station has a graphical interface for setting up ESU decoders, but comments in manual that one has to drop back to CV values for other makers (their manual admits its complicated and difficult).
I don't think DecoderPro is a perfect solution. Its far from it. I've seen a few other DCC computer interfaces which look better.
But the standard approach to decoder CV setup is close to dialing *#40 (or whatever it is on a PABX) to divert a phone call. 20 years ago, telephone engineers said this was fine for end users. Human factors engineers (including me, at the time I worked for BT) said it was mad, end customers couldn't handle it.
QUOTE I appreciate your preference but you should also consider that many do not want to bother with adding a PC to their hobby or connecting one for the purpose of programming a single loco.
As to simple, yes it is when you use Decoder Pro, however its neither simpler nor more sophisticated for general decoder setup than many current controllers can do directly - and certainly not quicker... After programming hundreds of loco's by knowing and understanding the meaning of CV's I can have most setup changes done by the time your computer has finished booting up and you have even opened Decoder Pro
You are not comparing apples with apples. You are an expert, and know the command structure of CV's in your head, whereas an average user does not.
I think its unreasonable to expect a normal user of DCC to learn CV numbering schema (even just the NMRA basic agreed bits, let alone all the manufacturer specific extensions). The practical reality of current development is that one needs to know a bit about them to get anywhere with DCC (mimium to set decoder address), but I regard that as an unfortunate middle step during the evolution of digital control.
As for a decoder configuration race, that depends on how many CV's you want programming in a single session
. A computer (be it my laptop or a DCC command station) will outperform anyone's typing speed, so the limit is the human selecting/entering values. The interface with the lowest number of keystrokes is likely to win any race with expert users. But, take away the expert users and try again, and the result will be dependent on other factors, including how difficult it is to interpret manuals, make binary-decimal conversions, etc.. I would argue that the interface which offered the options in a well structured manner and without requiring the end user to make calculations or consult manuals is likely to be quickest.
But, we've been here before, and you are certain many users don't want computers anywhere near their trains. I am not so sure; those who I know who've seen decoder setup via a computer seem taken with the idea.
regards,
- Nigel
