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Paul Hamilton aka "Lancashire Fusilier"
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am looking on the net for pictures, plans, ideas what ever of what a typical dairy would have looked like that was served by or could be modelled at least to be served by a railway, particulalry would like to see ex MR or LMS but anything of that era would do I guess as a start.

Any pointers?
 

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I think there's been quite a bit written about the dairy on the ex-Midland Railway at Appleby. I don't have any direct information at my fingertips right now, but I'm pretty sure there's been stuff in 'Steam World' and similar magazines. I'll look through my literature and get back to you over the next few days.
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Just another modeller
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QUOTE (Lancashire Fusilier @ 13 Oct 2008, 11:43) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I am looking on the net for pictures, plans, ideas what ever of what a typical dairy would have looked like that was served by or could be modelled at least to be served by a railway, particulalry would like to see ex MR or LMS but anything of that era would do I guess as a start.

Any pointers?

*** Hi Paul

"Express dairy" may be a useful web search start point: Most of the LMS/Midland regions saw Express dairy milk tankers and express also handled much of the egg traffic - in specially painted vans too!

I have a few Midland and LMS books focussing on infrastructure and related things that may give you some help but I'm not sure how much specific dairy related stuff is there. I will look tonight.

Alan (the source of the signal books) may be a good source....

Richard
 

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Dairies varied in size according to location. A simple design would consist of a building with hipped roof and a loading bay on one side. Where rail access was provided there was usually a short platform too, it depended of course whether milk was handled in cans (churns) or in bulk where the necessary pipework was required to unload the rail tanks.

There would also need to be a boiler room - the simplest and smallest would be a tin attachment to the main building housing a vertical boiler. Larger dairies had more sophisticated plant.

On the output side it would be necessary to discover whether crates of milk were shipped out in bulk or there was also a retail delivery unit attached to the dairy. Remember in the steam era most milk was shipped into the dairies from the farms in cans, and commercial users of milk like hotels often had processed milk delivered in the same way.

Most rural stations shipped milk cans. My grandfather used to take his milk to Snarestone Station on the old Ashby & Nuneaton Joint line whence it was taken all the way to London.

This ceased in the 1950s when milk was collected from the farm by a Road Lorry and taken to a Creamery in Birmingham.

IF you need any further information contact me by private message.
 

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There was a rail-served dairy at Cricklewood on the Midland mainline. Looked very much like any group of industrial buildings. I must admit I did not study it in detail as I went past as a commuter, but I'm fairly sure that had a (un)loading bay with pipework. The Middleton Press book on the St. Pancras-St Albans section of the line indicates it was built after 1916, as it is not shown on a Midland Railway diagram of that year. Alas, there is no recent photo of Cricklewood in that book. The dairy has been demolished in recent years.

There was also another rail-served dairy at Ilford, between Ilford and Seven Kings stations. Again I must have passed this on a number of occasions but cannot recollect any detail. I do have a Working Time-Table which indicates it was still receiving milk by rail in 1971. Interestingly the milk trains are in the passenger time-table rather than the freight one. I don't have the Middleton Press book on that line so I cannot say if it has any useful information.

There was quite a bit of correspondence in late 2005 on the forum about Milk trains; a search, possibly under 'Milk' or 'Milk Tanks' might turn up something of use.

Regards,
John
 

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Paul Hamilton aka &quot;Lancashire Fusilier&quot;
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thanks to everyone who responded. Plenty of generic information available and am sure I can create something here from the info provided thanks. I was also trying to find out about Rowsley Dairy too as that was close to the sort of region I am modelling. Anyone know anything about it?

Now, what about abortoirs? Were these ever rail serviced? I am thinking of a ficticious building, maybe 2 stories, lots of cattle pens serviced by a rail siding for animals to come in, big chimney for the unmentionables, loading bay out for wagons to take the hides in perhaps. Can anyone think of anything else it may need? Would the administration area be a separate building or located on an upper story of the industrial warehouse style foundation I am thinking of?
 

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QUOTE (Lancashire Fusilier @ 14 Oct 2008, 05:50) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Thanks to everyone who responded. Plenty of generic information available and am sure I can create something here from the info provided thanks. I was also trying to find out about Rowsley Dairy too as that was close to the sort of region I am modelling. Anyone know anything about it?

Now, what about abortoirs? Were these ever rail serviced? I am thinking of a ficticious building, maybe 2 stories, lots of cattle pens serviced by a rail siding for animals to come in, big chimney for the unmentionables, loading bay out for wagons to take the hides in perhaps. Can anyone think of anything else it may need? Would the administration area be a separate building or located on an upper story of the industrial warehouse style foundation I am thinking of?

i think the website i linked to for you might have something about abbotiores on it as well - there is a lot of info on that site , just looked through it might be on there !!!!!
 

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Paul Hamilton aka &quot;Lancashire Fusilier&quot;
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Couldn't find anything in those links Nikki however I did find this site which offers a glimpse into the many industrie related and as such the wealth of operating potential a railway based around any combination of these industires offers.

Abattoir
 

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QUOTE (Lancashire Fusilier @ 14 Oct 2008, 05:50) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Now, what about abbattoirs? Were these ever rail serviced?
The answer is sort of yes and no. The whole business of bringing cattle to market for sale and subsequent slaughter for meat was well established long before the railway arrived, resulting in the situations described in your link to the Wolverhampton meat processing business. This has never been much of a hobbyist area (!) so the data has to be dug around for. The UK gov's BSE report indicates around 1,500 market/abbattoir operations still going in 1975, compared to below 300 just 20 years later.

Before reliable refrigeration, meat had to be distributed very fast after slaughter, every town therefore had to have some place where cattle could be brought and kept alive, so that when slaughtered the consumers were on the doorstep. There's the reason for what must have been thousands of small market/abbatoir operations in the UK. That was the state of play when railways emerged, and by and large they were superimposed: cattle could be moved greater distances to exisiting places of sale for slaughter, but the investment already made in stockyards, auction facilities and abbatoirs meant that unless the railway could be brought close to the stock yard or abbatoir there might not be that much integration. Stock yards were usually located where water and feed could be readily obtained, right down in a river valley was typical, and depending on the terrain it might be impractical to make these rail served. Worth poking around older market towns in rural areas to see what the layout looked like, for the few that I know, the rail facilities were all a fair distance from the meat market.

This is very unlike the situation in the USA, where the development of the railway and cattle ranching in the mid west, simultaneously with the start of mechanised processing and refrigeration, resulted in Chicago becoming the central point for the majority of commercial meat production.
 

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I can clearly recall that a local butcher in urban London (SE18) had a large pair of yard doors to the side of his shop back in the 1950s. I recall asking as a young child what these were for, and apparently up until the late 1940s this butcher (and his father) had done their own slaughtering and had the necessary buildings behind the shop.

Not that far away the local Royal Arsenal Co-operative Society had a large farm - they built an abbatoir on part of that to provide meat for their shops, but the nearest railway was two miles away down a steep hill, so all cattle movement was by truck. The local station eventually lost its cattle pens in the late 1950s when the platforms were extended as part of the North Kent electrification scheme and they needed the area the pens were in for this.

Regards,
John
 

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Paul Hamilton aka &quot;Lancashire Fusilier&quot;
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Thanks for the additional info. I guess I will stick to the dairy / creamery loading out dock then. It may well be in partial relief as a back scene style of building so I am keen for details on what these loading outs looked like, how was the pipeing arranged for filling and discharging milk tanks and churns etc
 

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Just another modeller
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QUOTE (Lancashire Fusilier @ 20 Oct 2008, 14:26) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Thanks for the additional info. I guess I will stick to the dairy / creamery loading out dock then. It may well be in partial relief as a back scene style of building so I am keen for details on what these loading outs looked like, how was the pipeing arranged for filling and discharging milk tanks and churns etc

Don't forget though that cattle docks existed at most rural and larger village stations - and transport to and from these was not by truck, but by a few men and maybe a dog or two! Then there's sheep and horses to think about.

There's nothing stopping you having a small herd being driven through the village. The image attached says what I mean well.....

Get the breeds right though - the cattle types gradually changed over a hundred years or so as one breed or another evolved as better meat or milking animals, and a cow breed on a 2000 baed farm may be very different to what grazed there in 1933.

Richard
 

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Paul Hamilton aka &quot;Lancashire Fusilier&quot;
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I have actually already built and painted a Ratio cattle dock which I am actually not that unhappy with and want to dispose of my Bachmann cattle wagons and replace them with kits or at least get rid of everything from the solebars down and rebuild the chassis in EM. I was thinking that milk traffic and cow traffic would be good but simply wondered if the cattle traffic was just for selling cattle at market or whether there was direct to the slaughter house expresses that would add a little dark side to my layout!
 
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