Locos derailing

11314 Views 53 Replies 16 Participants Last post by Ozzie21, May 27, 2006

Gary

Discussion Starter · May 18, 2006

QUOTE The diesels and DMUs are ok but some Hornby steam derail quite regularly. None of my German locos derail at all!

How common is this. The only issue I ever had was with a Bachmann Class 4MT when the front bogie kept coming off on a certain point. The answer was to not run the loco across that part of the layout.

The thing is Hornby and Bachmann don't deliberately design trains to derail, and surely they carry out extensive testing prior to putting a model into production.

And Hornby have their roadshow and their trains run for many hours each day and do not derail.

So lets have a definitive discussion on this subject.

Why do trains derail and how can you prevent this from happening?

Convince MRF members that it is the loco that is at fault and not some other aspect.

And what makes German steam locomotives stay on the track better than British locomotives?

German steam locomotives have smaller wheels and run more slowly as HO scale speeds are slower than OO so is this a factor?

Do German locomotives have bigger flanges than their British counterparts?

Happy modelling
Gary

21 - 40 of 54 Posts

37197

· #21 · May 22, 2006

4

QUOTE (Gofer @ 21 May 2006, 20:43) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>What's a derailment? Is that the occurance when a rail vehicle leaves the track? I wouldn't know. I don't get derailments but then again I took time to lay my track properly

.

Hmmm

.

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neil_s_wood

· #22 · May 22, 2006

3

QUOTE QUOTE(Gofer @ 21 May 2006, 20:43)

What's a derailment? Is that the occurance when a rail vehicle leaves the track? I wouldn't know. I don't get derailments but then again I took time to lay my track properly .

Hmmm

Indeed

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neil_s_wood

· #23 · May 22, 2006

4

QUOTE QUOTE(Gofer @ 21 May 2006, 20:43)

What's a derailment? Is that the occurance when a rail vehicle leaves the track? I wouldn't know. I don't get derailments but then again I took time to lay my track properly .

Hmmm

Indeed

So we all didn't?

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Ozzie21

· #24 · May 22, 2006

2

QUOTE (Gofer @ 22 May 2006, 05:43) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>What's a derailment? Is that the occurance when a rail vehicle leaves the track? I wouldn't know. I don't get derailments but then again I took time to lay my track properly

.

well there's always one

Ozzie21

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trainman

· #25 · May 22, 2006

Going back to the main topic of this thread, I was talking to a gentleman just this morning who had been having the self same problem with his 'N' gauge. He discovered that some of the flexitrack he used, was too tight on the curves, thus derailing every train and regardless of what it was, or even what country it was manufactured in. Like many of us, he admitted trying to put too much in too small a space.

dwb

· #26 · May 22, 2006

>was too tight on the curves
I wonder had the gauge shrunk. As I understand it, N gauge uses Code 55 as the shop keeper points everytime I say Code 75 bends each time you sneeze.

David

Gofer

· #27 · May 22, 2006 (Edited by Moderator)

3

Ooooh dear. That seem to touch a few sore bits and pieces!

Sorry Gents but you can't get away from the facts. If you're getting derailments and I'm not then there ain't too many conclusions to be drawn.

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Dennis David

· #28 · May 22, 2006

Yep, you're the man.

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Dennis David

· #29 · May 22, 2006

I think most people stay with Code 70 for N-Scale even thought Code 55 may be more prototypical.

Ozzie21

· #30 · May 22, 2006

Apart from all the other problems I listed there is one that cannot be addressed unless a complete change is made in UK modelling. It's the "I use "OO" track from Peco". Peco don't make "OO" track they make "HO" track which of course is what most of us use. Now which standard do you apply? one for "OO" or one for "HO" you don't you comprimise or if you didn't you'd be ringing up Hornby or Bachmann and asking for a 3.5mm Loco to run on your 16.5mm track. I think it is now time to ask Peco to start making "OO" scale track ie 18.83mm so that those of us who would like to run our "OO" models on "OO" track can do so without going to the hassles of handlaying track. I did that and it was fun but I wouldn't like to do it again.

Ozzie21

neil_s_wood

· #31 · May 22, 2006

2

QUOTE He discovered that some of the flexitrack he used, was too tight on the curves, thus derailing every train and regardless of what it was, or even what country it was manufactured in. Like many of us, he admitted trying to put too much in too small a space.

I think thats part of the problem. With set track you have an exact curve whereas with flexitrack it can be a bit out and that would be part of the problem. Obviously points are the other big area where problems occur.

Recently I ripped up half the track on my layout and relaid it using a small spirit level to ensure that it was level all the way round. I also reduced some of the gradients as they were a bit unrealistic. This has really improved things. I guess that is part of the problem, in that we try to include too much in too little space.

Maybe one day, if we try real hard, we can all have our track as perfect as Mr Gofer.

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Dennis David

· #32 · May 22, 2006

Yes, but if we did that there would be no reason for Mr Gofer to exist.

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Gofer

· #33 · May 23, 2006

2

Keep trying lads. Practice they say makes perfect!!

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dwb

· #34 · May 23, 2006

>whereas with flexitrack it can be a bit out
I use "tracksetta" gauges to assist. Even using these I have had to lay curves up to 4 times to arrive at the location I want. The slightest shift and you can be out by an inch and a half.

David

neil_s_wood

· #35 · May 23, 2006

That might be a good idea. I had read somewhere recently that people were going back to set track due to the problems with flexitrack. I reckon flexitrack is fine for large curves but I am starting to wonder about tighter ones. I have revisited my track on my layout as it was originally laid many years ago and have already relaid half of it due to problems with derailing and overambitious slopes.

icornish

· #36 · May 24, 2006

I had a problem with one (hornby steam) loco going over a curved settrack point. It always managed to derail the front bogie if it was going one particular way.

I re-laid the track, replaced the point with another brand, checked the back-to-back (again), with no joy.

I then added a little bit of weight to said bogie, and all was solved.

to add the weight, I removed the bogie from the loco, and made a mould from modelling clay. I then mixed fluid lead and PVA glue, poured into mould, and let it set. Total weight is a few grams, but the difference is amazing - not one derailment.

Lancashire Fusilier

· #37 · May 24, 2006

Yeah, amazing how a little mass can stabilize the bogie. Nice suggestion.

spongebob

· #38 · May 24, 2006

QUOTE (neil_s_wood @ 24 May 2006, 00:13) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>That might be a good idea. I had read somewhere recently that people were going back to set track due to the problems with flexitrack. I reckon flexitrack is fine for large curves but I am starting to wonder about tighter ones. I have revisited my track on my layout as it was originally laid many years ago and have already relaid half of it due to problems with derailing and overambitious slopes.
I always understood flexitrack to be the equivalent of a 4th radius curve and that was as tigh as it could be made. The main problem area I have with derailing is the curved setrack points from hornby which are all well and good until you try to run a loco with them as facing points onto the inner track as they tend to sne half up the outer track as well. Replaced them with a peco setrack one which has more or less cured it but not the stalling of smaller loco's. Electrofrogs appear the only solution to that porblem.

Ozzie21

· #39 · May 24, 2006

QUOTE (dwb @ 24 May 2006, 03:30) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>>whereas with flexitrack it can be a bit out
I use "tracksetta" gauges to assist. Even using these I have had to lay curves up to 4 times to arrive at the location I want. The slightest shift and you can be out by an inch and a half.

David

Tracksettas can be quite useful if you are laying a curve off a point but they are pretty useless if you are laying a fairly large curve. What I did was get some very large tracksettas made fron 3mm MDF in the radius I most commonly use ie 36", 39", 44" and 48" . These cover 90 and 140 degrees and fit exactly the same as the Peco unit. The other thing is to mark out the curve before you lay it by using a long arm. I made mine mine from 1" square cedar with a steel point at one end drilled it, at the required distances from 30inches on out to 60 inches in one inch increments, to take a pencil at the other end. Another trick to laying flex track on curves is to allow for easements at the starrt and finish of the curve. These should be about 8 inches long and roughly two sizes up from your desired curveture ie: actual curve 30" with easements at either end of 34" or 36". This will allow the leading bogie of any vehicle an easy transition from straight to curved track. This also helps eliminate the effect of overhang on our not so scale models.

Ozzie21

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dwb

· #40 · May 24, 2006

>Tracksettas can be quite useful if you are laying a curve off a point but they are pretty useless
I used tracksettas to draw outlines on the inside of cereal packets and then joined them together to create templates which at least show me where the track is going to end up. I suppose if I made paper ones I could just lay the track on top.

I like your MDF template idea.

I don't think a long arm will work for me because the centre is always in the operating well and the truss spacing in the loft is only 600mm.

David

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