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Discussion Starter · #41 ·
QUOTE (john woodall @ 2 Sep 2008, 07:48) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Hi Baykal,

Have you tried it with a different signal. I ended up with a duff shunting signal that took a while for me to work out it was the signal not me.

Does the signal work with out the masterswithch?

Cheers

John

Yes it does John. I am obviously doing something wrong with the connections. Maybe I need a different power source for the lights, I will try that out.

Baykal
 

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***If its a solenoid and won't fire when the peco motor does when connected, its definately the wiring that is an issue.

Try just adding the signal solenoid connections to the MS first... yellow to centre and one blue each to left and right, connected to the same 3 terminals that you would connect the peco point motor to.

Once that is sorted, we can look at the others.

You definately cannot use the solenoid contacts for the lights, and if the lighting wires on the signal already have a resistor, you will definately either have to take it off the signal or use a separate power supply for them.

I do not have a veismann here to test with... but there is no reason at all that it will not work perfectly with MS.

Richard
 

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QUOTE (Richard Johnson @ 31 Aug 2008, 10:42) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>The interface is an opto-isolation board so when that is used you can use any form of triggering from any decoder of any brand - the Opto board also has bridge recitifers built in so whether the ouput of the decoder is common +, common - or ac the MASTERswitch doesn't care.
Can I ask why you chose to use an additional bridge rectifier instead of adopting a simple AC input optocoupler to achieve the same effect?
Can't say what the price might be in Australia, but the KB814 AC input opto is only 14p from Rapid Electronics.
 

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QUOTE (Gordon H @ 3 Sep 2008, 07:14) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Can I ask why you chose to use an additional bridge rectifier instead of adopting a simple AC input optocoupler to achieve the same effect?
Can't say what the price might be in Australia, but the KB814 AC input opto is only 14p from Rapid Electronics.

***Why we made circuit design decisions is not really the sort of discussion for a forum. However, to clarify a little for you. In fact there are 2x bridge rectifiers on the opto board, not one.

The opto board is an added project we really didn't originally intend however we produced it as it was clear that there were some possible applications that might compromise reliability and that was completely unacceptabe to us, so it is made perhaps heavier than needed but it is bulletproof.

Cost isn't an issue: Our component pricing is nothing even similar to retailers such as Rapid. Durability is.

The Opto boards are now provided totally free of charge where clients specify at the time of purchase that they will DCC control the MS.

In those cases the accessory pack provided also changes totally, from DPDT switches+ LEDs, to a pair of opto's plus specially designed PB switches (with 3x optional colour caps) so parallel manual control can be maintained with DCC conncetions.

This same accessory pack is also available separately for purchase at a very low cost, to aid the transition to DCC for existing MS owners.

The evolution of MS is continuous and positive - the next step sometime in 2009 will allow digital control of the current MS series with no changes to either MS V2 or Plus, but will eliminate the need to buy multiple conventional accessory decoders.

Richard
 

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QUOTE (Richard Johnson @ 3 Sep 2008, 11:08) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>The evolution of MS is continuous and positive - the next step sometime in 2009 will allow digital control of the current MS series with no changes to either MS V2 or Plus, but will eliminate the need to buy multiple conventional accessory decoders.

Richard
See - Good things come - to those who wait

As I'm "workbench only" modeling at the Moment (But Imagining bigger and better things) and nearly everything is in storage . I'm in no hurry to purchase control gear

New developments in DCC and technology in general go forward in leaps and bounds

There is so much to Learn! So much fun to be had

Regards Zmil
 

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QUOTE (Richard Johnson @ 3 Sep 2008, 03:08) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>***Why we made circuit design decisions is not really the sort of discussion for a forum.
Why not? If pictures are presented to a forum showing what an item looks like, surely they are just as likely to prompt questions as anything else.
After all, you wouldn't expect people to refrain from asking why Hornby etc. had chosen to do something in a particular way when presented with a picture of one of their items. That is what these forums are all about.

QUOTE However, to clarify a little for you. In fact there are 2x bridge rectifiers on the opto board, not one.
Isn't that simply because it is a dual board? Unfortunately I can't see the picture where I am at present because Photobucket is restricted here, so I am working from memory.

QUOTE The opto board is an added project we really didn't originally intend however we produced it as it was clear that there were some possible applications that might compromise reliability and that was completely unacceptabe to us, so it is made perhaps heavier than needed but it is bulletproof.
Not doubting that, but unless I have completely misunderstood the intention of the design, the rectified control signal still has to pass through the opto LED, so I can't see how that is any more bulletproof than my suggestion, which if feasible would have reduced your component count and board size (and therefore cost) by moving the rectification function into the opto itself.

QUOTE Cost isn't an issue: Our component pricing is nothing even similar to retailers such as Rapid. Durability is.
Cost is ALWAYS an issue. However, from experience I can believe that the component cost has little bearing on the eventual retail price. That is common throughout the commercial world.

QUOTE The Opto boards are now provided totally free of charge where clients specify at the time of purchase that they will DCC control the MS.
Fair enough, you are bearing the cost - which seems even more reason to adopt the simplest possible arrangement available.

Sorry if this all seems a bit critical, but my interest in such matters tends to dominate the thinking. Dealing with this sort of circuitry on a daily basis myself, as I do, automatically prompts questions no matter how hard I try not to get involved!
 

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Discussion Starter · #47 ·
MISSION ACCOMPLISHED !

Finally I have done it without burning up anything.

By just throwing a switch, I can control the point motor ( without worrying of frying it )+ Control panel LED + Viessmann Semaphore. Only the light of the semaphore being controled by a different power source.

Proceed:


Stop


..now time to experiment and explore any other possibilities that this amazing gadget can do.

Baykal
 

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QUOTE (ebaykal @ 4 Sep 2008, 03:34) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>MISSION ACCOMPLISHED !

Finally I have done it without burning up anything.

By just throwing a switch, I can control the point motor ( without worrying of frying it )+ Control panel LED + Viessmann Semaphore. Only the light of the semaphore being controled by a different power source.

..now time to experiment and explore any other possibilities that this amazing gadget can do.

Baykal

*** Thats really great news Erkut - You've made my day! I was confident you'd get there as MS hasn't let us down yet and the pictures of it all in action are a nice motivating bonus for me!

Keep experimenting and do it without worry - if you do manage to let the smoke out, I will of course cover you with the goof proof warranty!

I really will have to look closer at those Veissmann damped solenoids - they look excellent.

I'm not ready to consider stocking them until I take a good close look, but I really should get several to play with so I can know about them in detail before I decide to sell them...

Who is the best EU retailer/source for them price wise?

Re MS - I was really pleasantly surprised to see that Iain Rice has given MASTERswitch a lot of kind words in his excellent new book "Railway modelling the realistic way" - in two places... (one is on page 159, can't recall the other). A positive endorsement from Iain is a great thing!

Richard
 

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QUOTE (Richard Johnson @ 4 Sep 2008, 06:00) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>*** Thats really great news Erkut - You've made my day! I was confident you'd get there as MS hasn't let us down yet and the pictures of it all in action are a nice motivating bonus for me!

Keep experimenting and do it without worry - if you do manage to let the smoke out, I will of course cover you with the goof proof warranty!

I really will have to look closer at those Veissmann damped solenoids - they look excellent.

I'm not ready to consider stocking them until I take a good close look, but I really should get several to play with so I can know about them in detail before I decide to sell them...

Who is the best EU retailer/source for them price wise?

Re MS - I was really pleasantly surprised to see that Iain Rice has given MASTERswitch a lot of kind words in his excellent new book "Railway modelling the realistic way" - in two places... (one is on page 159, can't recall the other). A positive endorsement from Iain is a great thing!

Richard

Richard,

I thank you for the MSV2. Saved me a lot of trouble in wiring..etc when you come to think I have 20 odd points to consider in my layout.

In continental modelling there are two basic companies dealing with lighting,catanery systems and signals, one is Viessmann the other is Sommerfeldt.

Viessmann is the top notch producer off all.The dampening action of the semaphores is exactly as the prototype. A joy to watch it in action.

Check out their site:

http://www.viessmann-modell.com/en/aktuell/inhalt.php

I usually buy all my stuff from:

http://www.modellbahn-kramm.com/index.cfm

Find that they are the cheapest in Europe and personally know the people, had a chance to visit them during Dortmound fair.Very reliable company.

Cheers

Baykal
 

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QUOTE (ebaykal @ 4 Sep 2008, 10:41) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Viessmann is the top notch producer off all.The dampening action of the semaphores is exactly as the prototype. A joy to watch it in action.

Hi Baykal,

Must admit I like the sound of those Veissmann semaphore signals but obviously they follow contiental prototype.

Do you have any idea what the options/possibilities/problems would be in converting them to UK prototype (GWR in particular). Would it be just a case of changing the arms to some brass etched ones and a repaint or is there such a fundamental difference that it's not worth considering further ??

Cheers,

Expat.
 

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Richard, I just looked at the comment by Iain Rice
Re MS - I was really pleasantly surprised to see that Iain Rice has given MASTERswitch a lot of kind words in his excellent new book "Railway modelling the realistic way" - in two places... (one is on page 159, can't recall the other). A positive endorsement from Iain is a great thing!
That is good - I had not got that far into the book yet.
I must admit I am still happy with V1.
 

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Discussion Starter · #52 ·
QUOTE (Expat @ 4 Sep 2008, 12:04) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Hi Baykal,

Must admit I like the sound of those Veissmann semaphore signals but obviously they follow contiental prototype.

Do you have any idea what the options/possibilities/problems would be in converting them to UK prototype (GWR in particular). Would it be just a case of changing the arms to some brass etched ones and a repaint or is there such a fundamental difference that it's not worth considering further ??

Cheers,

Expat.

Trevor Hi,

Dead easy to change the arms, clip type. I have seen the Hornby UK OO signals, can easily pop one out and can mount it or as you say can make them yourself too.
One thing tough OO Hornby semaphores dwarfs the HO Viessmanns, i.e; there is a considerable difference in size,plus it really will take a considerable effort to change the body for a UK prototype without damaging the damping mechanism , but anything is possible.

Baykal
 

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QUOTE (ebaykal @ 4 Sep 2008, 21:33) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>One thing tough OO Hornby semaphores dwarfs the HO Viessmanns

Hi Baykal,

Thanks for that though I suspect the size difference may be related to the difference between H0 and 00. As I model in N Gauge I'm hoping that won't be a problem.

Having said that, however, the design of the posts is, as you say, entirely different. What would probably be ideal is to get hold of just the Veissmann damping mechanism and attach it to some prototypical UK signal kits.

Any idea if this is possible ???

Trevor.
 

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QUOTE Any idea if this is possible ???

Model Signal Engineering (MSE) stock the Viessmann mechanism to go with their kits, so yes it is. They have quite a selection of operating mechanisms listed on this website page

David
 

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I know this thread is an old one but some people may come across it in a search.
if you are using a Masterswitch to switch 2 Peco or Seep motors PLEASE use the diodes provided otherwise you will damage your Masterswitch. Take it from someone who knows
 

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I'm with you on that Brian.

For a single unit that is simple to install and controls:-

1. The operation of multiple point motors via an in-built CDU
2. Changes the frog polarity
3. Activates LED indicator lights and/or layout signals

all from either the flick of a single switch or an accessory decoder, I don't think there's anything to beat it and I can't believe there is anything else on the market that does all of this for the price of a MASTERswitch.

I have 42 points on my layout and they are ALL operated via MASTERswitches.
 

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Hi

Please share with us what is cheaper and preforms better.

QUOTE I think the master switch is over priced and there is better alternatives, a lot of money to outlay when you have a lot of points...

QUOTE For a single unit that is simple to install and controls:-

1. The operation of multiple point motors via an in-built CDU
2. Changes the frog polarity
3. Activates LED indicator lights and/or layout signals

Im with you on that one expat coupled with some of the other products from the master range Richard has good coverage.

m
 
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