Messy modelling in 7mm narrow gauge.

The thing about threads like this is that IMHO it really does not portray what actually is prevalent in the real world of modelling.

Personally I think this is a crock and a wind up.

Sure the number of specific prototypical modellers is small, but if we show a modicum of honesty, there is a degree of envy in us that suggests that by goodness why can't I do that.. The above is at the other end of the spectrum and is like I have so moved on from this. From an exhibition stand point which would you rather see, the above or just as an example JimSW's P4 New Street.

Narrow gauge modelling is not toy modelling lets get that out there as a fact. Pre war biases by standard gauge employee's that narrow gauge railways were toy railways were consigned to the dust bin on the battle fields of France/Belgium in 1914/18.

While our modelling skills may be different from others, over time they improve. what was once acceptable to the five year old, would no doubt make the 10 year old cringe.

If you want to subscribe to the OP's theory of modelling by all means do so, just don't denigrate the majority who wish to do something different.

Not a wind up. More of a different approach. While I agree the prototype narrow gauge railways were (And still are) real operating useful railways I think in this respect you may have gone on a tangent to the concept I am relating to. A model railway is a toy for adults. It rarely has a practical purpose other then leisure. During our leasure time in the hobby we learn many new skills and develop others. From all hobbies and past times out there I have not found a hobby that can match ours for the wide range of elements of skills required. As an adult in my 40's I can hardly think of a time when I have not had miniature trains so while I have tried a few other hobbies nothing replaces model railways. However in recent years I believe we have become too serious. Our trains are built to run and enjoy.
I moved to 7mm narrow gauge with the concept of a light hearted approach at minimum cost, as minimum cost is the only way I can continue. Budget means scratchbuilding. The only cost to me to make a wagon are glue, paint and either resin for casting wheels (Though crude but the cheapest way) or buying cheaper packs of RTR wheels. I'm fortunate to have many spare wheels due to past projects. What I didn't have many of were couplings. Hence I make my own from drawing pins (Tacks?) and paper clips, as to buy RTR tension locks are 75p each! That will bring the completed wagon price to around three pounds. Way over budget! Though it is not easy to work out the cost for a wagon I make, I will say the maximum is around two pounds and the minimum is around a pound or just over. I am fortunate to own the tools I need. Probably the most used are a minidrill set, a junior hacksaw, a set of files and pliers, and a mini vice and clamps.
I will say that what I am doing is easy. Many have done the same before me and many will do the same after me. Probably the most difficult part is coming up with ideas and testing those ideas. What does one use to make a certain item that is either very cheap or free? A clasic example is a wagon design I made from wood. The wooden chassis I drilled to accept the axles for the wheels, only to find that as I do not have a pillar drill the holes didn't align up. Not only that but the holes were in the wrong place so the wheels rubbed on the body work. Solution came as a brainwave. I enlarged the axle holes to at least twice the size needed or larger. Then drilled a tiny hole 90 degrees to the axles in the central part of the chassis. Cut an offcut from a bicycle gear cable. Unravelled it to get a single strand of metal. After wedging through the hole and over the two axles (And carefully bending the wire to the right tention) I now have wagons at the right height with gently sprung wheels.

QUOTE (john woodall @ 6 Dec 2015, 00:49) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>The thing about threads like this is that IMHO it really does not portray what actually is prevalent in the real world of modelling.

Personally I think this is a crock and a wind up.

Sure the number of specific prototypical modellers is small, but if we show a modicum of honesty, there is a degree of envy in us that suggests that by goodness why can't I do that.. The above is at the other end of the spectrum and is like I have so moved on from this. From an exhibition stand point which would you rather see, the above or just as an example JimSW's P4 New Street.

Narrow gauge modelling is not toy modelling lets get that out there as a fact. Pre war biases by standard gauge employee's that narrow gauge railways were toy railways were consigned to the dust bin on the battle fields of France/Belgium in 1914/18.

While our modelling skills may be different from others, over time they improve. what was once acceptable to the five year old, would no doubt make the 10 year old cringe.

If you want to subscribe to the OP's theory of modelling by all means do so, just don't denigrate the majority who wish to do something different.
Far from being "a crock and a wind-up", the writer is being honest in describing his starting point in the hobby. As his interest, knowledge. skills and equipment develop, so will his concept of a railway, and if it turns out to be different from everyone else's concept of a railway, I hope he will enjoy it as much as you do. My original Triang oval, with a Jinty and four wagons on a table top with an on/off battery box didn't look much like a railway either, but I've moved on a little since then.

andrew

I was actually writing to those of low income or no income that there is a way you can enjoy the hobby without the need to spend large amounts. Generally model railways has become quite an expensive hobby. Yes there are many hobbies far more costly out there. And yes at times in the past model railways were only available to a few. My concern is that I want this hobby available to all incomes and so I am working on ways to make this so. My critism was not intended for an individual but to state there is another way. Most of us have been in the hobby for many years so years of collecting during times of blessing (When we have an income allowing us to enjoy the luxury of our hobby) gives the feel to those new to the hobby that they have little chance to compete. Especially when a new modeller has plans to make his railway to the excellent standards we see in magazines today. Many do not realise the years of collecting and work involved in some layouts. While I can do little to improve on the hours taken to build a fine model railway, I certainly have iseds on how to make a model railway at less cost even if it is a small start.
Regarding my views on mainstream manufacturers. Understandably they do need to make profits. While they work to provide for the customers, those on lesser incomes (E.g. 5k to 10k a year or less) struggle to buy at the increasing prices and if they buy the very basic Hornby trainset with an 0-4-0st or similar (Actually it is a brill little loco to convert for 7mm narrow gauge) one can feel a bit left out when they see how much it costs to expand their humble trainset. However if one takes a different view on what is fun and what is possible one can really enjoy and feel really satisfied with a humble income. Why I started the thread called "Messy Modelling".
Being in a position of no income or little income in recent years (Along with many others) I still love the hobby. And while I can easily enjoy the many fine 00 gauge models I already own, I wanted a shift to find a way to help others start in the hobby and make something good. A book I loved when younger "Whizz Kids guide to model railways" (I have a copy somewhere!) gives many good ideas. Cyril Freezer wrote it. It inspires even today as it shows possibilities. I want to go a step further. While Cyril Freezer was writing to inspire younger modellers, I want to inspire modellers at most ages. While the very young I would say to enjoy the excellent cheap battery train sets as they are (Untill they are old enough to use the remains as foundations for future modelling), most of us want more then a plastic railed track. (Actually what is wrong with an adult enjoying making a model railway out of a cheap battery train set as it is? It is this concept I want to bring forth). I am not attempting to stop any finescale modeller enjoying their creations or from buying ready to run creations. Indeed I enjoy seeing such. But I really love it when I see humble beginnings developed from using scraps or anything else made into unique models however bizzare! To me wonderful creations are worth many times more then a mass produced model however excellent the RTR model is. I can't say what it is that makes me feel this way other then to say that I have a growing desire to create from free or cheap scraps rather then buy a model ready built. And such is this desire that I far more value someones model they have worked on then another model that has been bought in a retailer. (I am not saying that the shop bought item didn't have hours of hard work by the buyer to aford the model or that the staff and company that made the RTR model have not put many thousands of hours time to develop their model). More what I have seen at exhibitions is when I have mentioned I make couplings from drawing pins and paper clips some tend to turn away in disgust rather then actually want to see the result, as if I've insulted their models they have bought.

I once slightly ventured into SM32. I bought a mamod locomotive kit. Hard to get it to stop leaking steam with those rubber O rings as seals. It could be built as either 32 or 45mm gauge. I soldered the joints instead. It seemed to work but then didn't. I soldered it again. I sold it (Without too much loss of money as bought the kit very cheap due to being at a show with the old Carmarthen and West Wales Railway Society (I was a member)) with a 10 pounds loss to someone I knew (I told him I had difficulties due to leaking steam and where. He tried it and never has had any issues! So my last quick repair worked!) He also bought my traction engine and trailer if I remember. That worked real good.
Never bought any track due to cost. I did have a piece of old Hornby 0 gauge track for clockwork trains.
Well. The concept of a cheap battery locomotive is very tempting. I love the outdoors. However I have most of everything packed up as I'm hoping to relocate. A few times I have started an 00 gauge garden railway but due to not knowing if I was relocating etc so I didn't put too much effort the three times I have started. All experience. If I relocate I may build 7mm narrow gauge in the garden. Use tenders behine the locomotives to aid in current collection maybe (If needed).

QUOTE More what I have seen at exhibitions is when I have mentioned I make couplings from drawing pins and paper clips some tend to turn away in disgust rather then actually want to see the result, as if I've insulted their models they have bought.

Can we assume from this comment that you carry around an example of you drawing pin and paper clip coupling to show others how good it is?

I think that the current crop of exhibition modellers have moved on a fair bit from those of the 1950's and being forced by necessity to have to make do with what ever was to hand. In fact in the next few years, as 3D printers get more refined and cheaper, we may see a really significant move from RTR to this specific medium for modellers.

I think that all modellers take pride in their own creations and that is as it should be, however, if I was at an exhibition and someone started talking to me about making couplings out of paper clips and drawing pins, I doubt I would be unable to prevent myself from drawing the conclusion that this conversation is over, especially if they started reaching into their bag/coat pocket to show their creation to me. Just as an aside, I am currently investigating new couplings for my burgeoning Oe empire. While Kadees are ok I am going to try some 1880's NZR Couplers from a guy down the road [ http://marksmodelworks.weebly.com/kits-and-bits.html ]. Not very European but, back on topic.

While I applaud your enthusiasm, perhaps you might like to build a small exhibition layout and see what the exhibition managers/the general public think of your ideas?

Some really nice couplings there and lovely items. I do intend to build a model railway for exhibition. So far I have not done as concentrating on getting my locomotives and rolling stock right first. (I have built up two locomotive kits from Smallbrook Studio. Currently working on them untill I am happy.. (The details to make them more realistic). I've built three coach kits but they need more time on them (And to convert to my couplings), and have a scratchbuilt coach that needs attention (Axlebox fell off after it fell onto concrete from about two to three feet in height. (Was amazed that was the only damage.. Will be easy to put right. Has the first home made coupling design, very similar to the one you showed in the link but mine didn't like taking corners)), have various wagons as prototypes to test designs. Am working on the couplings and other details as needed. I also have many unbuilt cast resin locomotive kits from Smallbrook Studio.
While the aim was to have a slightly larger layout, I am now considering it may be better for a smaller layout I can also use for testing ideas as I beleive I will be relocating so whatever I build needs no not only fit in a car (I don't currently have a car on the road due to financial reasons) but needs to fit in a new location after a house move.
I indeed have taken examples of locomotives and rolling stock fitted with my couplings to an exhibition. What was strange is that they were interested untill I told them what they were made of. (Actually the enthusiasm varied a bit but was surprizing that the odd one or two seemed offended, not because of the visual slightly overscale appearance, but due to the fact they are cheap to make. It could be that they spent a lot to get their couplings and felt they needn't have?)
Anyway. Those couplings you showed me look lovely.
I do have to admit here that while auto couplings like Sprat and Winkle, Kadee and others are brilliant (I've bought a Sprat and Winkle starter set years ago before Wizard Models took them over) it is either the cost or the excessive time taken to convert. For me it takes enough time to drill three little holes each side of the body of the rolling stock, and file a drawing pin and bend a paper clip so it does not fowl the track etc. takes long enough, I have to say that my idea is not automatic couplings but an easy to use coupling. (To me the thought of the realistic 4mm and 7mm standard gauge coupling chain or screw link coupling would take too much time and be too fiddly). My design I would describe as semi automatic. Tension locks with uncoupling ramps or Kadees with magnets being automatic. I have a loop that normally hangs down, where the idea origionally was to make it look like two "Break away chains" but to simplify it is a loop, that can be left in the up position so it will fall via gravity when I bump it into the buffer of another wagon etc. It does work. I also need the design to negotiate very sharp curves. The last design didn't. Hence was rejected.
Anyway. You mentioned 0e. Lovely size and scale there. I was in 4mm scale and found going up to 7mm so much easier when painting or making the smaller details! I don't think I have the patience to model in fine scale myself. I am more of a "That will do" type modeller, but I really love to see the results of the lovely finescale layouts out there that would not have passed my eyes had it not been for the internet and magazines.

My locomotive No.1 is built from a Smallbrook Studio Clio kit (Mounted on the Hornby "Smokey Joe" type of chassis). As it is intended for "Main line" running (As main line as a narrow gauge line can be!) it needs somewhere larger to store coal then a few shovel fulls in the cab. I thought of adding a little tender with adding extra pick-ups but it would bring the little locomotive away from a "Tal-Y-Llyn" feel to a "Ffestiniog" feel to it. The character of the loco seems more "Tal-Y-Llyn" to me (Though I'm not modelling the Tal-Y-Llyn or the Corris railways directly they give me inspiration and ideas to set a scene). So what I needed was to add a small pair of coal bunkers. But what material should I make it from? The obvious answer is plasticard, but though I bought lots of plasticard from Blackwells of Hawkwell around twenty years ago (Are they still selling model railway stuff?), I can't seem to find the sheets. I put them somewhere safe!
So to plan B. What else can I make the bunkers from? I thought of tin or wood. Wood is great for wagons but would not blend in when using it for this purpose. Tin is possible, but I really wanted something plasticy or resiny to blend in with the cast resin body. I looked around the house. Looked at old plastic bottles that used to contain mineral water. The large five letre bottles looked promising but wanting to have a right angle that I can file down to form a slight curve rather then a 90 degree angled point, I rejected them unless I found nothing else. Thinking I was just going to have to wait untill I find my plasticard (Don't you just hate it when you eventually find what you were looking for, but then forget what you wanted to use it for and then when you remember you've lost it again!) but then sitting in my bedroom I looked up. There for such occasions as scratchbuilding I bought a long length of plastic intended for edging purposes for houses. Was in an L shaped (90 degrees) and the bend had just the right slight curve I needed! Not only that, it was just over the right size and was the exact thickness I needed!
So after a couple of hours between working and daydreaming, my train No.1 now has a pair of coal bunkers fitted with a first coat of paint. I managed to remove the toolboxes to make room for the bunkers. I did want to remove the saddle tank from the boiler but the saddle tank would not budge! So the locomotive has two small bunkers that slotted just under the saddle tank.
Next I will replace the toolboxes to their new position slightly more forward then they were and then the smaller details will be added... Now where did I put the offcuts of guitar strings my brother gave me.............?