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In depth idiot
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Should be something for most folk among the releases. My choice of highlights

An all new tooling for the LMS Black 5 with scope for a selection of the many variations of this supposedly standard class - that's a very good move as the existing tired model was looking like a 'low hanging fruit' opportunity for an ambitious competitor to pick off.

LMS Turbomotive, very obvious development now they have a current standard Princess in the range.

LNER A4 in their 'Hornby-Dublo' range, another obvious model to expand this range. I am something of an enthusiast for Hornby's metal bodied steam models, and will buy these, espacially as there is....

LNER Coronation streamlined set. How many RTR OO A4 models have there been since H-D's 1930s model, and never a sniff of the special streamline carriage sets for the high speed London-Edinburgh and London-Leeds services.

And a Lowmac to add some variety to the steam era wagon fleet. This one is a modest Loriot of distinctly different shape to the GCR/LNER/BR design series lowmac, on which both the H-D and Airfix GMR toolings were based, passing respectively to Wrenn and Hornby (the latter still occasionally produced).

And there's a Flirt to somewhat dampen the complaints of modellers of the contemporary railway.

Plenty more for other interests.
 

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Prices are astronomical however for all sorts of junior products and up to £500 for the 5 car 800 deisel rail car set which is a bit of a cough, the Black 5 I think is priced at about £250 which is rather a lot however I'll take one and see how it goes I might then sell all my current ones and buy say 3 of the new ones being Hornby I can do that with Hattons as to the rest I am not very enthusiastic enough the 9F when it turns up may be very good as well and I'd like to see streamlined P2 and W1.
It is the prices that shock me so it's down to the others to reveal their offerings and see how they compare.
 

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The Loriot was already announced last year by Rapido who have the rights from StudioCanal to market in 4mm OO Titfield Thunderbolt - Hornby do not so a legal case no doubt looms.
Hornby's strap line is 'inspired by'. My guess is that's enough to avoid any no doubt costly litigation.

Prices are astronomical however
I was kind of expecting higher prices given what Bachmann have been asking for their recent introductions.

As to the range itself, there's more than a few models that tempt me. A full Coronation set would be nice...

David
 

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Given Bachmanns V2 is £230 and we have yet to see Bachmanns price hike for 2022 the Black Five is around 8 1/2 per cent more. The real eye watering prices are the 08s at £186 and the M7 at £194.

Not sure the inspired strapline will get them out of trouble when plainly Lion is named Thunderbolt and the Loriet has Dans House on it - qute clearly distinguishing features of the film. If it really was to be inspired by why bother tooling the Loriet up when the existing Lowmac would suffice with the old 4 wheel coach body on it (as done previously).

Strange that the Flirt units (which have a 4 digit catalogue number when we are now into 5 digit numbers as introduced last year) are only shown by prototype pictures are slated as a Spring release while the pcitured 6 wheel Sentinels are for Summer, although given the awaited models from previous years those release dates are no doubt works of fiction.
 

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Mighty pile of something, certainly.

Interesting to see Hornby's 'Big Engine' obsession continue. One might have thought that with prices rising, they may have shifted their focus from the pacifics and mikados etc.

My personal favourite was the relivery of Percy (R30200) in BR lined black. Actually looks nowhere near as bad as one might expect.
 

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In depth idiot
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
The Loriot was already announced last year by Rapido who have the rights from StudioCanal to market in 4mm OO Titfield Thunderbolt - Hornby do not so a legal case no doubt looms.
The basis of any case for infringement of intellectual property is material unique to the fillum. All the road and rail vehicles are 'prior art'. (Remember Mattel's attempted claim for rights over 'Stepney' the Terrier in TTTE? Not their IP, prior art, long pre-existed Awdry's work.)

As such a Loriot is fine, as also the coach body if it was a genuine railway vehicle. The unique assemblage of that coach body on that lowmac for the fillum: Hornby would be best advised to tread carefully there, and likewise with any of the text style, images, dialogue, from the production; I am sure Hornby will have an IP specialist on the case to define just how fine a line can be drawn...
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
...Interesting to see Hornby's 'Big Engine' obsession continue. One might have thought that with prices rising, they may have shifted their focus from the pacifics and mikados etc. ...
I feel that this perhaps suggests otherwise.
Given Bachmanns V2 is £230 and we have yet to see Bachmanns price hike for 2022 the Black Five is around 8 1/2 per cent more. The real eye watering prices are the 08s at £186 and the M7 at £194.
In short, if you want accurate well detailed models, it doesn't matter whether big or small, they are going to be expensive. Hornby have to work the existing and in development tooling for the 'Big Engine Obsession' for as long as demand holds up, to obtain the optimum return on their tooling investments. (And let's not forget they still have to cover Gresley's P1 and 'The Biggest Engine' U1!)

I am more concerned for the viability of further small engines from Hornby made to the standard of their 08, D16/3, J50, J15, J36, M7; all of which I have, and would like to see more in this vein. While as an ECML modeller, I naturally have a mighty heap of wide firebox power thundering about, there were never more than 400 of these marvellous beasts: well outnumbered fifteen times over by smaller and usually black engines, which I have in recent years much enjoyed being able to buy as good RTR models. It will be sad if they become 'commercially impossible' in RTR OO, simply because customers will not buy a 'small black engine', because for not much more the eye candy of a 'Big Green Engine' wins out near every time...
 

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M7 has never been a cheap loco so no surprise there copyright on the Thunderbolt is likely to be a problem as another maker is working with the copyright holder so that may be difficult
 

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In depth idiot
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
...copyright on the Thunderbolt is likely to be a problem as another maker is working with the copyright holder so that may be difficult
Hornby will likely have taken legal advice. The law around IP is a mess, and I think there's an 'out' for Hornby as a result. Film 'props' like 'wagon with coach body on it' or a nameplate, don't have the same long duration of protection as 'art' does. So a film frame with images of either or both those items in scene are still copyright because they are 'art', but those items constructed for the film and photographed potentially aren't...

Hornby have to tread carefully not to infringe the 'art' element, images, text etc. of the film; reproduction of physical objects is probably OK.
 

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Rapido have since issued a YT video re Titfield so it will be interesting to see how StudioCanal manage this one, not least how they protect the exclusivity of the contract they have signed with Rapido.
I do not approve of these guerilla tactics by Hornby and will be sticking with my Rapido pre-order. I have however pre-ordered The Lady and the Lamp pack

Re the LNER Coronation coach packs, since Tuesday trying to pre-order these has been all over the place. On Wednesday, DeRails sent me an email as an existing customer and yet within 2 hours of me replying, advised their allocation was sold out. I have received a confirmation email from another major retailer, confirming pre-order receipt but the oddest of all was the Hornby website direct ie on Monday, all coaches were available for pre-order, then Wednesday morning 3 of the packs were unavailable but at 8am this morning all packs were available again with the exception of the Observation car.

It's almost like they had had pulled back stock allocation to their retailers so they could sell direct / replenish their own website stocks directly to optimise sales; it is indeed strange times.

The coach packs are actually a fair price when you compare to what Roco and ACME ask for in Continental MR, and if the interiors are anything like the real thing on Wikipedia, they could be very fine models indeed.

I have noted that Hattons have no mention of the Hornby 2022 range on their website, are they no longer re-sellers?

I also ordered the Black 5 with lights, sound and steam generator so if this comes through with a diecast chassis as has been mooted on some YT videos, the price will also be a fair representation

Conversely, the prices they are asking for some of the other models is unreal eg the M7.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
... LNER Coronation coach packs... are actually a fair price when you compare to what Roco and ACME ask for in Continental MR, and if the interiors are anything like the real thing on Wikipedia, they could be very fine models indeed...
Further to which, that price point was already reached with Hornby's QoS Pullman cars some years ago. Want a ten car set to run behind a Pepp A1? That'll be five hundred notes.

Given the Coronation set has a very clean external style, I would expect Hornby to depict the very stylish art deco interiors. Burning question for me, will we subsequently get these in BR liveries? Although BR never dared reassemble a set (for fear of unfavourable comparisons IMO) the vehicles were in front line service into the 1960s.

...the prices they are asking for some of the other models is unreal eg the M7...
That bothers me. Hornby having finally 'got with the programme' that Bachmann initiated, of producing a useful selection of the essential smaller 'black' locos to a standard matching that offered on the big engines; now pricing them at a point that many potential purchasers will shy away. Likely to think 'for that much money I'll have a biggun', which will kill off any further prospects for smaller locos from Hornby.

...Rapido ... re Titfield ... it will be interesting to see how StudioCanal manage this one, not least how they protect the exclusivity of the contract they have signed with Rapido...
Further potentially interesting factor: seen it mentioned online that Hornby have the licence for the bus of the 'villainous competitor', obtained by a business they acquired. If true, they can potentially utilise this in their marketing. Doubling down on the film's depiction of hard nosed competition...
 

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Re the LNER Coronation coach packs
Fingers crossed that the retailer I have pre-ordered from is able to honour it. This is such a contrast to the new kids on the block who effectively make to order. If you fancy a Rapido or Accurascale model, you pre-order it and if the demand is there, they make it. With Hornby it's a lottery as to whether your retail source of choice actually gets stock.

David
 

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In depth idiot
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
...Re the LNER Coronation coach packs...
There's a well known picture from the early BR period, of an A1 hauling a lengthy up train just South of York, taken from the old York Racecourse platform. Well down the train of LNER stock in variously filthed teak are a pair of coaches which look for all the world as if they are carrying BR's corporate era blue and grey livery.

What they are of course is an articulated pair from one of the streamline sets, still carrying the pre-war two tone blue livery, in clean condition. Either they were still getting special treatment in the way of cleaning not accorded the regular carriage stock, or they were not long out of storage. (They were stored out of traffic during the war.)
 

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"Given the Coronation set has a very clean external style, I would expect Hornby to depict the very stylish art deco interiors. Burning question for me, will we subsequently get these in BR liveries? Although BR never dared reassemble a set (for fear of unfavourable comparisons IMO) the vehicles were in front line service into the 1960s"

I think they will do the BR livery. Further, there were 2 routes for this train one of which was the West Riding Limited, the other I am trying to find. Hornby will want to maximise their investment and in BR livery would look superb. I also had to smile that they have added Empire of India into the 2022 range ie one of the 5x A4s that were dedicated to the train. I have pre-ordered that as I already have 2 of them in Garter Blue (Comm of Australia and Mallard) I agree, for a full formation, its not cheap but its the budget of 2x Roco locos and release is 6-10 months away, plus with Hornby CC discount and free shipping (to SW France!) It all starts to become a reasoned investment for something pretty special. And imagine if the interiors are well detailed, then add some gentle illumination and tail lamps and what a cracking formation it will be.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
...Further, there were 2 routes for this train one of which was the West Riding Limited, the other I am trying to find...
The other was London-Edinburgh, that had the 6 hour schedule, and carried the observation car in the months with longer daylight hours, when there was a view to see throughout the journey.
 

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The other was London-Edinburgh, that had the 6 hour schedule, and carried the observation car in the months with longer daylight hours, when there was a view to see throughout the journey.
Thanks, so looks like the WRL was the only named train and notably the carriages were so named. I need to check Shawplan for carriage end covers etc
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
All the LNER streamlined set trains were named.
The initial 4 hr London - Newcastle service 'Silver Jubilee' No headboard or name on coach sides (which were a different formation to the later Coronation and WRL sets) just being all silver presumably thought 'enough!'.
London - Edinburgh 'Coronation' no headboard but each coach with a bright metal 'CORONATION' in the centre of the lower bodyside, and on the rear of the of the observation car.
West Riding Limited - little idea! - don't believe the train name was on the vehicle sides.

Gangway end covers, good thought. Will Hornby include these?
 

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Prices are astronomical however for all sorts of junior products and up to £500 for the 5 car 800 deisel rail car set which is a bit of a cough, the Black 5 I think is priced at about £250 which is rather a lot however I'll take one and see how it goes I might then sell all my current ones and buy say 3 of the new ones being Hornby I can do that with Hattons as to the rest I am not very enthusiastic enough the 9F when it turns up may be very good as well and I'd like to see streamlined P2 and W1.
It is the prices that shock me so it's down to the others to reveal their offerings and see how they compare.
I think the price of the new kettles with their smoke and sound fitted is not such a bad price (taking RRP discounts into account once launched) but it could all come tumbling down if the sound file fitted are no better than the present TTS files with their awfully out of sync chuffs and hard changes through the speed range.

What absolutely shocked me is the cost of the HST power car sets, £362 for basically a diesel Loco and a coach! They really are TTP out of us for that one.
 
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