[pedromorgan]

I thought i would start a discussion on the mag that was not centered around DCC.

I thought generally it was pretty good. i thought it was a bit "Diesel" this time. the last ferry van haas arrived. albeit with the birdcage put together incorrectly (the kit is correct)!

One article i do take issue with is the airbrushing article. he suggests using tamia masking tape for large areas and using eurostar for the edges. this is not necessary and i note that the edges he has on the model are not particularly good (this would be far more obvious if it was a 4mm model but on the front end picture you can see that the lines are a bit feathery.)this is very easily solved and tamia masking tape is just as good as the eurostar.
His problem is leaving too long before removing the tape. he sais in the article he leaves 1 hour. this is much too long. as soon as you are sure the paint will not run, thats the time to remove the tape. the reason for this is simple. liquid will heal when its torn but cheese wont. if the tape is removed when the paint is still liquid the edge has time to heal before it gets to the cheese stage. after 1 hour it has already become cheese and when its torn it will leave edges like those seen in the article. if anyone is in london and would like a demonstration i would be happy to oblige.

The dapol article was interesting. it did seem a little more corporate than the hornby one. it felt to me like i was hearing dapol speaking rather than a person. but the answers were good and gave me a valuable insight into the workings of the company. a little dissapointed about the answer to the OO question but hay thats life.

The Fell article was interesting and its a nice model but i am not sure about the drive arrangement. the name heath robinson springs to mind!

Whe web master column was good reading. i actually like that column alot. it provides a link between the forums and the magazines. its amazing to think of just how much the world has moved on in 15 years. within my own lifetime the only way to respond to an article was to write in to the publishers. even then the chances of it being printed were slim and even then it couldnt possibly criticise anything. I wonder what models we would be getting now had the internet been around 20 years earlier. look at any magazine from 15 years ago or before and there is virtually no criticism of any model at all. i remember reading a review of the lima HST and the reviewer basically said "oah look its an HST. it has a lima mech and the coaches are the right length" but thats all.
It occours to me that despite peoples perceptions of an infringement of our liberties we are far better off now than we ever have been in the past. we can say what we think (within reason!) and have it published instantly on a forum that reaches the far corners of the globe. -I think thats fantastic!!

Peter

 

[neil_s_wood]

QUOTE It occours to me that despite peoples perceptions of an infringement of our liberties we are far better off now than we ever have been in the past. we can say what we think (within reason!) and have it published instantly on a forum that reaches the far corners of the globe. -I think thats fantastic!!

It's true democracy in that everyone can respond and be heard.

 

[alastairq]

and individuals will STILL try and impose THEIR views on everybody else?

and those that DARE to argue WILL get villified?

democracy?

where have I heard that one before?

 

[alastairq]

I really do like the artwork...especially in the layout articles....

US mags used this approach years ago (they probably have bigger budgets?)

what I WOULD like to see is a return to those fabulous articles on ''layout suggestions''...based, obviously, on prototypes.

but not with just outline plans....but lots of artwork views, sketches of ideas, etc.

I feel artistic impressions give a better 'flavour' of the subject.

 

[Gary]

The internet is not a true democracy. People use the internet to hide behind a cloak of anonimity. As the Model Rail editor said in the editorial in edition 107:-

QUOTE "Those who hide their identity behind pen-names on an internet forum have been much less so (overwhelmingly complimenatry). Sadly, there has been much heat but precious little light in four web pages of pontificating, much of it by folk who haven't actually read the interview and are merely taking up other peoples comments....

....the words "seem" and "apparently" appear frequently, to give an indication of how little first hand experience the writers actually have"

An accurate appraisal by the Model Rail editor.

My own identity is known to UK manufacturers, Warley MRC club members and others, and so I cannot hide behind a cloak of anonimity. On that basis I am sometimes amazed at how tolerant manufacturers are of internet forums!

Happy modelling
Gary

 

[alastairq]

QUOTE On that basis I am sometimes amazed at how tolerant manufacturers are of internet forums!

they obviously move with the times?

In the end, despite the numerical ACCESS people have to forums.....only a precious few actually bother to contribute.

I suspect this too has not gone un-noticed?

however, it takes a cleverer bod than I to sort the wheat from the chaff, so to speak.

now, where's those scissors........

 

[pedromorgan]

I know what you mean about anonymity. but dosent someone who uses their real name on a forum have a certain level of respect that anonymous people dont?
I know this will offend some but i sometimes find anonymous posters a little cowerdly. its obvious which ones just have a grudge and use the cloak to hide themselves. i think this forum is far better than some in this respect.

For the record My name is Peter Morgan and i live in london. I see it as responsible use of the internet not to hide behind anonymity but to have my name next to my words. this is not an anonymous voice but MY voice.

Its worth noteing that most of the major players on this forum use their real name.

I dont recognise Chris leighs description and so i dont thing he was refering to our thread on the subject.

Peter

 

[alastairq]

I'm sure for many contributors, there is an awareness that a public forum is exactly that...public!

Given the wide variety of locations [and nationalities] of contributors, it is reasonable to assume these forums are actually viewed by possibly thousands.

therein might lie a 'security' risk?

whilst I am aware it is relatively easy to identify the person behind a user name, where they live...exactly....right down to the size of their inside leg, a user name does give a semblance of 'security?'

I have contributed to forums....mainly motoring or 'driving'...my specialism......for some years now.

Initially, whilst I had yet to get to grips with windows and boxes, I unintentionally started with my wife's user name.
which is our name.

and I really could not be bothered to change things.

most regular users knew who I was.......some called round to visit!

However.....I use my first name and initial here, and elsewhere......

the real 'danger' lies with folk posting, purporting to be some one else?

this really gets to some people.........I know of one guy [met personally] who even went to the extent of taking legal action against someone, for this reason.

anyway, if I upset Chris Leigh, or anyone else, pop into 53A models in Hull.....John will tell you who I am!

 

[Gary]

Both Hornby and Bachmann have met you Peter at the Warley National Model Railway Exhibition and if they do read Model Rail Forum there is no doubt that as a result they may have greater respect for what you have to say as in a way you are accountable.

The manufacturers meet thousands of customers throughout the exhibition season and there is no doubt in my mind that there will be some that they will recognise if they read the forums! They will probably recognise every forum member who demands that a Blue Pullman is modelled!

Its really up to us to make sure that we are not an anonymous voice when we meet the manufacturers face to face!

Pat Hammond and MRE Mag are highly respected by the manufacturers and magazines because the authors of correspondence are accountable and are taken seriously. The magazines have the same respect of the manufacturers for the same reason. All authors are accountable.

Hornby have to take what is said on the Hornby Forum seriously as Hornby Forum members are accountable. Hornby require details before they let you sign up.

I don't know what the answer is. I have no objection to allowing the manufacturers to know who I am and being accountable for what I say. However I am certainly not keen on allowing "undesirables" to have personal details!

The data protection thing is probably the biggest hurdle that forums and the intenet generally have to overcome. I like to think I can trust manufacturers and magazines with my data. Rest assured that Model Rail Forum does employ state of the art encryption and has its own secure server, not a shared server like every other forum. There is a 100% commitment that data is protected and will not be shared with a third party ever. Model Rail Forum gives its members total control over which data they would like to share with other members.

Happy modelling
Gary

 

[7113]

QUOTE (pedromorgan @ 20 Jul 2007, 11:09) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I know what you mean about anonymity. but dosent someone who uses their real name on a forum have a certain level of respect that anonymous people dont?
Its worth noteing that most of the major players on this forum use their real name.
Peter

I quite agree with you Peter, as many on this forum are aware John is actually my middle name, my first one being Dave, I started using John as a sign off as at the time there seemed to be a lot of Daves. After this amount of time I think changing it would cause more confusion. As to BRITHO it's merely an abbrevation of of BRITish HO - which Is what I actually model. Incidentally I do live on the Isle of Thanet and many years ago worked for Triang Hornby. (I think that's what they were called in 1976)

QUOTE (alastairq @ 20 Jul 2007, 12:28) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I'm sure for many contributors, there is an awareness that a public forum is exactly that...public!

Given the wide variety of locations [and nationalities] of contributors, it is reasonable to assume these forums are actually viewed by possibly thousands.

therein might lie a 'security' risk?

whilst I am aware it is relatively easy to identify the person behind a user name, where they live...exactly....right down to the size of their inside leg, a user name does give a semblance of 'security?'

A very good point, unfortunately there are a number of undesirable people in any community who are only too happy to use information culled from forums for their own ends. This is why I don't freely give out my surname anywhere it's fairly unusual and little seen outside of where my family live.

QUOTE (Gary @ 20 Jul 2007, 12:49) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Its really up to us to make sure that we are not an anonymous voice when we meet the manufacturers face to face!

It hurts me to say it but I actually agree with you on this one Gary.

Regards

Dave this time, but in future

John

 

[Brian Considine]

QUOTE (BRITHO @ 20 Jul 2007, 15:00) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>It hurts me to say it but I actually agree with you on this one Gary.

Regards

Dave this time, but in future

John

So do I !

Actually, I used a "handle" when I registered on the forum as I thought it was not quite the thing to be seen to promote our business. As many of you on the forum know "Euroscalemodels" is our business.

I have no problem with people knowing who I am so have changed my signature to suit.

 

[Brian Considine]

So much for the signature - I'll try again !

Looks like that's got it.

 

[Gary]

Fair comment Brian!

The promotion of a business in a signiture is always one of those grey areas with forums. I personally am in favour of those who do have a business interest in the hobby to declare it openly and what better way than through a signiture. Its an honest approach and at least then big H or big B can tap that business on the shoulder and ask whoever what they were on about when they said such and such on a forum. And we all get a better understanding of the perspective of the forum member.

However there is then a tendency in forums that permit this for business owners to flood a forum with messages for obvious reason that they get a bit of extra promotion for their business. And for the forum to develop such that its membership comprises mainly of shopkeepers and traders! This seems a little unfair when a forum has paying advertisers and sponsors which help to cover the costs of the forum. And it can make for a dull forum full of promotional type comment with little actual modelling content of interest to the public at large. So I can see why Model Rail Forum has the rules that it has. And I cannot really see any other way. Can anybody else?

If a trader wants to submit a review for publication on condition that there is a link at the bottom that may be an idea. Reviews are widely read and are there forever! And you can include a "Buy it Now" button!

Note the new section at the bottom marked "Retailers News". This is a new area that permits all Model Rail Forum members who also happen to be traders to promote their wares and special offers. However a condition of using this section is that you have to be making a contribution to the forum through advertising or sponsorship!

It is a perk for those who do pay for banner advertising or who sponsor forum sections. The feeling is that once traders start using this section it will be widely read by forum members.

Come September I will be banner advertising at Model Rail Forum and will be using this new section maybe weekly.

There may be others who are contemplating similar in the busy seasonal run up to Xmas!

To get the subject back on topic I believe that the rates that Doug charges for advertising are very competitive when compared to Model Rail!

And you get a relatively exclusive advert!

Happy modelling
Gary

 

[pedromorgan]

I agree that advertising on the forum is a bit of a grey area.

As many of you know i too have connections with a company (and a second start up company that will be releasing its first product at the end of the year) but i have been very carefull not to advertise. items from that company have appeard in my posts and on the "an update to my bench" thread but i have been very carefull and make sure that they only appear as answers to questions that someone has posted or because it happens to be what i am working on at the moment and it really is the model that is on my bench.

I have even had to remove pictures from one of my posts because i accidently took a picture of a carriage that showed a project in the backround that has not been released yet!!

I am not sure about the "retailers news" section. i totally understand the need to raise funds for the upkeep of the forum. but also i think that people come on the forum to talk about things and not to buy things. also i dont like the idea that only the retailers can post in there. i dont mind if they are the only ones that can start threads but it is a very convenient way of avoiding the "oah yes thats a good idea but you can get it slightly cheaper from ......." posts. i feel thats where forums cross the line and become a little too commercial for my liking. i have no objection to modest advertising but its a way of ensuring that only one view or in this case price is seen.

Gary i agree with your point about promoting and not paying for it. but also there is the other end of the stick. you are having contact with the traders or manufacturers themselves. I think we are responsible enough not to overstep the mark and flood the forum with promotional material. indeed it would give us a bad reputation and woudl not be in our best interests.

Peter

 

[7113]

This is the first post I have made since changing my signature. I have thought about my earlier post and have decided that like Brian (dbclass50) I may as well come out into the open. My only reservation was about advertising my surname due to professional considerations. To hell with that. I am who I am and proud of iy.

For the last time...........

Regards

John

 

[neil_s_wood]

Am I the only person here who has no connection to a business that makes or sells models? Just for the record my name is who I am, I am also known to modellers here in Ozz and at home in Scotland and am a BRMA member so I am answerable for what I post. This unfortunately means I have to restrain myself from saying what I would like to say in many instances.

To be fair I think it is ok for a business to post on the forum as long as they openly state their interests so that can be taken into consideration when reading their opinion. It is those posters who do not that concern me.

QUOTE Come September I will be banner advertising at Model Rail Forum and will be using this new section maybe weekly.

This really interests me.

I'm glad you've come out as Dave, it gets confusing remembering which name to put on PM's and posts.

 

[dwb]

"Those who hide their identity behind pen-names"

I resent the implication that the only reason I don't use my full name when posting on a public forum is so that I can make unaccountable defamatory remarks.

My motivation is security. The pages in this Forum are online 24/7. There is nothing to stop "bots" crawling all over them picking up personal information. Apart from a user's name, they can also detect a change in a user's log in habits. For example, I usually log in at least once a day. If a few days lapse and I haven't logged in, perhaps I am on vacation and my house is empty? But is it worth breaking in you ask? Well maybe my posts or blogs indicate that if I have a large collection of model railway kit, maybe I have other stuff worth nicking too.

For this reason and an unpleasant experience online about 10 years ago when there was a very nasty "flame" (it was not aimed at me) from someone who could best be described as psychotic, I keep my real life and online identities separate. The Forum authorities know who I am and have contact details. I have also been in touch with a couple of other members as my "real" self.

From a model railway perspective, I am happy to be judged by the content of what I post. Over a period of time people will make their minds up as to whether my posts are worth reading or not. If I develop a reputation, whether good or bad, then maybe revealing that to a manufacturer's representative at a show might draw a response. Somehow I doubt it, so being "DWB" or the "real" me wouldn't make any difference.

David

 

[goedel]

QUOTE (dwb @ 4 Aug 2007, 21:07) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I resent the implication that the only reason I don't use my full name when posting on a public forum is so that I can make unaccountable defamatory remarks.
That's exactly why I use one!

Seriously though DWB raises something I take very seriously - in this age of universal availability of information one should guard personal details zealously - once they're on the net anyone can get hold of them and there are many ways of doing so, from a simple google search right through to using bots and monitoring software that the more sophisticated and villainous utilise.

Let us not forget that the hobby is an expensive one and many modellers will have spent in the thousands in total with all their models and equipment taken into account...virus software and firewalls sound nice, along with encryption, but there is no guarantee of security - the code may appear strong but is as weak as the weakest employee of the security company.

Also, revealing your real name is a one way thing - there is no way to delete all traces of the information once you let it loose. Should the forum require the use of real names in future as official forum policy then I shall have no choice but to depart...it is not that I don't trust any of my fellow modellers, rather I don't trust the six billion other people who could access the Internet.

Goedel

 

[neil_s_wood]

The thing is that while you have to sign up to register on this forum anyone can view it. I have really hyped the security on my garage as it became apparent to me that I have been publicising its contents on my blog. So all you would be burglars be aware there's something way more dangerous than red backs out there!

 

[alastairq]

QUOTE resent the implication that the only reason I don't use my full name when posting on a public forum is so that I can make unaccountable defamatory remarks

That may not be the case with you, but the facility is there, and is used by many.

'respect' for a poster on a forum surely isn't about 'what' or 'who' the poster knows?

Surely it's about how that poster conducts themselves on a forum?

One who posts ''defamatory'' remarks surely loses the respect of others?

So before anybody else becomes resentful at remarks in editorials...just ask the question, ''if the cap fits, etc??''