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Sorry Gary, I may not be clear enough - my fault.

1. This isn't a matter of paying for a link to a cheaper supplier but of a trader purporting to BE the original supplier, then actually using someone else as the source and for delivery.
2. The excitement and adrenaline of auction bidding often drives out all semblance of common sense, driving the final price WAY above retail! You can't then recalculate that inflated price back to an effective 50% discount or more.

As I say nothing illegal, just traders taking advantage of all too common stupidity
 

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Quote.....The other great laugh is people paying more than even the normal shop price to chase down an auction on Ebay - absolutely amazing.

Here speaks someone who obviously spends absolutely zero time on ebay whatsoever. Sure some people are prepared to pay through the nose for stuff others like myself go for bargains. I have never paid over the odds for anything and never will. For example one of my recent ebay purchases.
BRAND NEW BACHMANN 32506 STANDARD CLASS 5 LATE BR BLACK LIVERY

BRAND NEW BOXED FACTORY SUPPLIED MEGA BARGAIN

BUY IT NOW FOR ONLY £54.00

UK P&P 1ST CLASS £3.00

Saving a fiver on the sellers magazine listed mail order price of 59.00 plus postage. If a £3.00 p&p charge is deemed excessive then i'd love to meet your courier rail rider.
Other examples include hornby's gresley coaches both teak and crimson and cream best price for the teak a tenner and the crimson a massively over the odds price of £5.70 plus p&p.

Spend hours trawling shopkeepers websites i think not. If this makes me a nitwit then so be it.
 

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If you get good deals on eBay then great. I get good deals, but I see other deals quite often sell for well over the retail price.

I'll always check an item that I'm interested in with what is available in the shops, knowing too what those shops charge for shipping.

I will never bid before the last 10 seconds of an auction. If I see it go too high, I'll leave it, or if it remains at a good price, I'll pick it up.
 

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QUOTE 1. This isn't a matter of paying for a link to a cheaper supplier but of a trader purporting to BE the original supplier, then actually using someone else as the source and for delivery.
2. The excitement and adrenaline of auction bidding often drives out all semblance of common sense, driving the final price WAY above retail! You can't then recalculate that inflated price back to an effective 50% discount or more.

I didn't realise that "traders purporting" happens and that if it does happen it is fraudulant to pretend to be someone you are not and is definitely to be condemned in the strongest possible terms.

In terms of the "nitwit" scenario I also totally agree with that under the circumstances of the second point! I attend a lot of real live hand in the air auctions and to be honest there are nitwits there too! This is a fact of auction life everywhere!


Thank you for clearing it up.


It was my missunderstanding!

I do appreciate that this may have gone slightly off the topic set by double00 however there is still a mail order v shop element to this and we are all learning how to make the best of the mail order side of this equation. This could however make shops visits even less attractive for some and more attractive for others depending on your take on things!


Happy modelling
Gary
 

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I'm lucky to have a retailer 10 minutes walk from work, and their prices are usually the same as other internet retailers when you add in the cost of postage (they sell over then net too). Have a chat with the guys behind the counter, see the loco I'm interested in run up and down the test track then det my debt (yep!) card out...

When I visited on New Year's eve I enquired about the new 2006 Hornby items, and was shown a trade list - this included the trade prices. I now have an idea how much the shop pays, and how much profit they make selling at internet prices
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
I have for sometime now perused and bought railway items on the eBay net work, and honestly I have come to the conclusion that most sellers would put Arthur Dailey or car salesmen to shame.
Very seldom will you bid for an item described accuratlely and mostly state as "item as seen in the picture", a picture anything but clear to my eyes.
The item most at risk is the bundle of painted passenger figures - each time these painted figures appear not as made to believe, only to have received a lick of several paint colours, administered by the looks of things by a five years old child, but certainly most probably by an adult.
My last bid of £7.00 + £2.50 P&P was for an unboxed Hornby R406 2 colour aspect signal - certainly in my opinion a fair bid, taking into consideration of the rrp of £13.00 or less. Eventually the winning bid reached £16.00 (total £18.50).
 

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QUOTE (double00 @ 15 Jan 2006, 18:19)I have for sometime now perused and bought railway items on the eBay net work, and honestly I have come to the conclusion that most sellers would put Arthur Dailey or car salesmen to shame.
Very seldom will you bid for an item described accuratlely and mostly state as "item as seen in the picture", a picture anything but clear to my eyes.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I must say this is not my experience. I would say that the majority of eBay sellers I've used do describe honestly, but a few big sellers (not the well-known retailers) are dishonest to a degree and that distorts the overall picture.

Three things I do which give me trouble-free eBay buying:
First, I always "Ask the seller a question" asking for a description of all faults. Amazing what that produces! If I get no reply, I don't buy. Usually the seller is very helpful. Sometimes they will even say "well actually it is mint but I didn't want to put that in case someone finds a speck of dust or something". Sometimes they will state a problem and then when you look at the photo you can see it although you would otherwise have missed it.
Second, I don't buy from anyone with less than 98% positive feedback - no matter how attractive the item.
Finally, if I'm not satisfied with the item when it arrives, it goes straight back in the same packaging followed by an email saying why and that I will give positive feedback if I get a full refund including postage. This has never failed yet - even with sellers who state they won't accept returns .
Far too many buyers complain but don't actually send the stuff back. The sellers concerned then think they can get away with it and try to rip off the next person - that's you.

I now buy nearly all my railway stuff on eBay. If I do make the occasional mistake it goes back on eBay and sometimes even makes a profit - rarely a significant loss.
 

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I do agree to some extent that ebay does contain an element of dodgy characters and people to avoid at all costs and i do try to be as careful as possible with what i buy, for what price and from whom. In over 3 years of buying and latterly selling i can honestly say i have only had one bad experience and that was trying to sell a mobile phone for the wife. Certain highly prized electrical goods like phones, laptops and ipods bring out the worst type of pondlife both buying and selling. After 1 wrecked sale i put in a few blocks designed to prevent another "Nigerian scammer" from bidding from overseas only for probably the same person to register over here and do it again, lesson learned, phone sold elsewhere.

The most common area of stupidity seems to be in the ability of people to read through what they think they are buying in the first place the favourite being ..
You are bidding for a link to a website not an actual phone/ipod/xbox etc.
i remember one particular person who thought it would be funny to list an xbox box for sale and do it in such a way that it appeared you were getting an actual xbox as well. Sold it for £80 on buy it now to some poor sap, proceeded to brag about it on the community help pages and was ripped to pieces by the decent moral upstanding and helpful ebayers who lurk there.


Anyway we are totally off course now from the original heading and i was merely suggesting that you can save money from certain model shops over their shop and mail order prices by looking at what they are selling on ebay through their shops there.
 

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I agree that other eBay areas such as mobile phones etc attract the low-life. I should have made it clear that I was talking about the Collectables category in general and Model Railways in particular, which I think is remarkably straight, all things considered. But then why would a Nigerian Scammer be interested in what we do? It would be sad if modellers were put off using eBay as an alternative to mail-order or model shops by stories about scams in quite different areas, especailly when they can protect themselves by following a few simple rules.

Besides, if an eBay seller does repeatedly overstep the mark it only takes a posting, or even the threat of one, on a forum like this........
 

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I decide to buy online as my local model shops are to dear so i did my first internet buy from hattons on saturday 7th january as they are cheaper and it didn't get packed till the thusday,and because it weighed over 2kg they sent it by ANC EXPRESS which they picked it up friday and i still haven't received my goods yet from ANC EXPRESS.

So i have realized that if i decide to order again from hattons is to make sure my orders weigh way under 2kg so it can be delivered by royal mail,or to order from another online shop.
 

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I use the regular local toy fairs, not sure about the warranties but every new item bought comes with the manufacturers paperwork in the box and the prices are the keenest I can find anywhere. I tend to stick to one or two regular dealers. So far all locos have been in perfect working order, I even got to test one via another stall who demonstrate DCC. You also see some rubbish at the fairs but you don't have to buy it.

Brian
 

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I guess you were at the showground yesterday then branchliner. My wife and I went as well came away with a bachmann class 25 for £26 so mustn't grumble, could've spent a fortune in all honesty, forgot to pick up a hornby catalogue from the man from pennine models though. Last time i went to the lincoln toyfair it cost me 6 points and a £200 fine!!

Swopmeets are of course the other option to consider if there is one in your are which attracts more than 3 sellers!! The bigger ones tend to get a lot of shop traders as well.Also good for getting rid of any stuff you no longer want in part ex (except the wife!)

If you think things on ebay demand stupid prices you really haven't seen anything til you've had a good browse round a swopmeet i'm sure some of them price them high just for the haggle, trouble at the big meets is remembering where you saw that really cheap item, then after spending half an hour tracking the stall back down he's either sold it or it turns out to be junk after all.
 

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Discussion Starter · #34 ·
I must heartily agree with Spongebob on the subject of "swap meets" or aka "junk meets". Recently, at our local monthly meet, I purchased a Hornby Mk4 InterCity 00 coach - however after carefully examining the coach for excess scratches, damaged window glazing and state of bogies and wheels, I handed over coach and money to the stall seller. I am still unable to fathom how the stall seller managed to do it - the now wrapped up coach was handed to me and only on reaching home that the coach in front of me, certainly was not the one I selected a few hours earlier - window glazing scratched/cracked and one bogy was minus its wheels.
It was entirely my fault - I should have re-examined the coach before my leaving the stall. It proves now not to trust anyone at this type of show or anywhere for that matter.
If you are searching for a bargain, then it could well be a long search - the prices asked at this particular swapmeet certainly points that way. The price shown or given by the stall holder is final and not negotiable, as he/she prepared to hold on to your thought-out after bargain until asking price is obtained.
 

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I also try to stick to a few regular sellers but sometimes a bargain appears that is hard to turn down. I do have one guy i buy from regularly, it started out as cheap lima stuff mainly but he now has some very well priced new stuff. I don't like to haggle prices for stuff and think if people show a fair price its unreasonable to do so. After all its not a Turkish Bazaar. Is that your best price mate?... Depends which side of the counter you're stood on sir!
 

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I use Mail order as I have no local model railway shops, but years ago I used a local shop. I would prefer to use a local shop,especialy if they stocked all the bits and pieces that you need for your layout.
 

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Most model shops have approx 30% profit margin on sales of new items,bearing in mind the VAT content.Out of this they have to pay all their overheads,and try to make a living for themselves,as well as have enough profit to replace the sold stock and invest in stocking the new products.If paying by credit card another 3% is lost,so discounting is not very easy and has to be very selective.When I worked for a leading specialist,our annual profit after all expenses had been taken out was never more than 6% in over 35 years,and this figure was greatly helped by sales of books and magazines that gave a profit of 33.33% as they have no VAT content, and also our own productsThis meant then when the landlord decided to increase our rent by 300%,that was the end of us.So the choice with many retailers is either sell less at the best profit,or sell more at a low profit,not easy.If you are a regular,buy all your requirements from your local shop both large and small purchases,you are more likely to get a discount when spending a fairly large amount.
homeofoo
 

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Unfortunately, whilst I do have some good - local - model shops, they stock only European (and occasional US) outline models (although are a great source for track, electrics, standard paint, etc.), so I have to order from the UK via mail-order (on-line ordering). Less VAT and postage at cost allow me to purchase at something at or below RRP (and - given difference in prices between European RTR and British RTR - I consider that I get a good deal).

I use Hatton's for RTR and Mainly Trains for all my finescale/exotic needs. Great service from both places.
 

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Am I right in thinking that Bachmann will not do any warranty work unless the guarantee card has been stamped by an approved dealer? The reason i ask is the last thing i bought brand new by bachmann was over t'internet through ebay and the dealer in wuestion didn't stamp it. This also applies to swopmeet purchases i suppose and could cause problems if things go wrong.
 
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