Modelling Preserved Lines

I must agree with Peter on this question.
I would describe my layout as "almost anything goes", certanily for a short running session at least.

More importantly I would describe my layout as a "based on" effort. Indeed, it is described on another forum as "The Western Valley Railway - how it might have been".
Why? I like Hornby's Diesel Railcar, but can find no record of one arriving any closer than Chepstow (15 or so miles from the valley junction). I like the Bachmann 43xx, but can't find a record of one allocated to Newport Depot, or a photo of one on the WV line.

I could go on, including listing various locos that ran on the line, but never at the same time, but suffice it to say that my "based on how it might have been if" layout gives much pleasure and I feel no need at all to call it a "preervation line", even though the prototype has been closed for some years.

No accuracy in the strictest sense perhaps, but full of atmosphere (I hope), displaying good modelling skills (I'm told) and providing occasional enjoyment for four generations of the family.

So the rivet counters can s*d off, I can find a loose prototype for everything and I'm happy!

QUOTE You also have to bear in mind that there is politics involved. although many of them would have scenes definatly worth of being modelled I find the preserved lines in the uk rather excluding and unfriendly. They are so full of red tape and health and safty nonsence that I really wouldnt feel any inclination or enthusiasm to recreate them in miniture.

I don't quite see what this has to do with modelling them or something like them. Based on layouts are good enough from this point of view.

Don't you think that the aim of preserved lines is to recreate the atmospere that existed in the 1930's/1940's./1950's and it just so happened that the railways were run by "more than my jobsworth" types and so this type of approach is all part of the scene and expectation of the visiting public as the staff are "perfoming"?

Unfortuneately current health and safety has somewhat helped to reinforce the "more than my jobsworth" type and who can blame them when the penalties for breach of any rules are so high?

I watched on Tuesday as Warley MRC put "No Smoking" stickers all around the club. Apparently even churches have to do this under the new "no smoking in public place" rules. It adds yet more unnecesary eye clutter to a former Tai Chi type environment and gives even more for the health and safety geezers to think about.

No doubt Signs of The Times have already produced "No Smoking" signs for modellers to stick all around their layout on and in every building and coach.

Happy modelling
Gary

I agree with Gary...and have said as much before in these pages, and others.......we are incredibly LUCKY in this particular day and age, of having such a choice of possible CURRENT prototypes to chose from.

Back when I started putting wheels to rails, the prototypes were simply what we saw, or went before. The preservation scene was very much in its infancy.

But today it offers a perfect foil for the 'tother' side.....the preservation scene isn't simply about 'running what you feel like'.
There are incredible options for detailing basic stock, either 'as found', or 'nicely renovated', or various combinations in between.

I have an idea for a shelf layout, based upon the TYPE of operations seen at Grosmont, on the NYMR....particularly with its 'interchange' with the 'real' railway.
Quite simply, a 'curved' track through a platform, with today's banked ballast style, plus today's DMU sets, running to and fro.....all in the background.....with the foreground as the preserved side.....maybe not even the whole platform length......with trains arriving, departing, swapping of locos, etc.......plus lots of light engine movements....watering up, etc....with older [chaired?] track....perhaps the road crossing......then there are the training course trains...either light engine, or with the prepared 'goods' train?

so plenty of variety....and the possibility of actually replicating actual stock (and movements)...rather than 'freelance'...

the only downside to preserved action, is the actual lack of working 'goods' operations.....that is left to the strictly modern stuff.

now for my netwrok Vitrains #37..perhaps detailed as a loco undergoing preservation? plenty of rusty, missing panels, yet mechanically working well, so utilised for the season?

or a sulzer day?

There's the 08 working fresh coaching sets in and out....

a pity there is no Bachmann or Hornby GWR 2-8-0 tank.......or lambton 0-6-2.....which my wife so thoroughly enjoyed firing and driving?

Preservation offers somthing very different in terms of operation, to the 'other' side.....without much 'suspension of belief?'

The variety possible in modelling a preserved line was what attracted me to do this - and the non-prototypical timetables such lines can have, meaning there are more frequent trains to run.

I'm sure I've seen a couple of exhibition models based on preserved railways, or at least incorporating a preserved line as part of a layout. If I can dig the details up I'll post them on here.

Re Health and Safety: Most preserved railways have their ways of handling this, but many people do not realise they are obliged to follow most of the same safety protocols that apply to the main-line operators. Hence the ability, for example, for the NYMR to run trains through to Whitby with its own crews. (And wouldn't that make a model of Grosmont that much more interesting!)
The Vintage Carriage Trust at Ingrow shows what can be done in workshop viewing, both for the able-bodied and disabled.
Regards,
John Webb

> they are obliged to follow most of the same safety protocols that apply to the main-line operators
A benefit of this is that you can watch the practical application of protocols like "Token" working on single lines, locked local lever frames, trains being brought to a stand before being called on into a passing loop. I was particularly struck by this when reading pages 88 to 92 or "Railway Signalling and Track Plans" by Bob Essery last week. The text and the detail can be rather dry, but being able to remember my day trip to the Swanage railway last Easter Sunday gave me the real world example to provide that extra understanding. For example there is a lever frame at the park & ride station at Norden which is unlocked by the token for that section of the line. In order for the locomotive to be able to run round the train, it has to be inserted in the frame first.

David

I looked through about twenty guides to exhibitions I've gone to in the Herts and Bucks area in the last eight or nine years; also a number of 'Railway Modeller' and other model railway mags. The vast majority of layout builders seem to prefer to set their layout in a specific decade or two; several even model a specific year, and one or two build a layout that can be run in two distinct periods by changing a few buildings, road vehicles etc..

I tracked down the following models of 'preserved' lines:
Hythe - the Romney, Hythe and Dymchurch line modelled post-1974 by which time it was effectively in preservation.
Watlington - the terminus of the line from Princes Risborough, part of which is actually preserved as the Chinor and Princes Risbo' Railway. The maker has assumed the line was preserved soon after BR left it in 1964. (This is an HO model and should not be confused with the 4mm version of Watlington described in RM in July 2006.)
70K Coley Park A 4mm scale model of a former steam shed of ficticious location converted to a diesel depot but retaining some of the steam facilities to service locos on steam specials.

RM for Oct 2003 took the Yorkshire Dales Railway, especially Embsay, as its 'Plan of the Month' with many interesting photos.

One layout I've seen but could not track down is a modern image layout which has a 'Steam Centre' with a short 'out and back' run on which preserved locos are run. Possibly a 2mm layout with a semi-suburban setting? Ring bells with anyone?
Regards,
John Webb

Both my OO and N gauge layout are based on the idea of a preserved line running over the old GWR branch between the Berks & Hants and Bath via Devizes.

Westwood Junction (the OO one) is at the western end of the line with the main shed and workshops and a main line connection for running specials between there and Bath. It is intended to be the main point where passengers embark, and as such the station is relatively large and has an overall roof.

The eastern end of the line is Hamblin Junction (N gauge) where there is a turntable plus smaller shed so that services can start from both ends of the line at the beginning of the day. This is also where the main line rolling stock fleet is based - allows me to get away with a Bulleid re-built light pacific hauling a rake of Foster Yeoman ballast hoppers!

Regards,

Dan

Sorry i have been away for a few days and i have not had time to reply to posts so i am playing catchup.

QUOTE (Gary)I don't quite see what this has to do with modelling them or something like them. Based on layouts are good enough from this point of view.

I think i explained it pretty well in my origional post "I really wouldnt feel any inclination or enthusiasm to recreate them in miniture.". i wouldnt want to make a model of something i dont particularly like.

QUOTE (Gary)Don't you think that the aim of preserved lines is to recreate the atmospere that existed in the 1930's/1940's./1950's and it just so happened that the railways were run by "more than my jobsworth" types and so this type of approach is all part of the scene and expectation of the visiting public as the staff are "perfoming"?

No Gary. unfortunatly i dont think that. i would love it if that were the case and the preserved lines in the UK would be far better as a result but there are many lines around the country that seem to exist purely to make money and hide behind the word "preservation" in order to get extra funding for their projects. they are really a light railway trying to attract tourists rather than a preservation line.

QUOTE (Gary)Unfortuneately current health and safety has somewhat helped to reinforce the "more than my jobsworth" type and who can blame them when the penalties for breach of any rules are so high?

In a word YES. if they cant do something one way then they should find a way of doing it another way. recently we have been banned from using leaded solder. but do we sit around and winge about it? (ok some do) no we get on and found an altrnative and it works perfectly well. there is no reason at all why the loco sheds cannot have public galleries or viewing areas. i think in one particular case it boils down to lazyness. its something i find very dissapointing and frustrating.
I went to one major line last year which has an incredible collection of rolling stock and all i could see was a USA tank a tamping machine and 2 bary hulks. even though i was within 100 metres of 4 pacifics!!!

I think it is all too easy for railways to point to H&S as an excuse for not making acess a priority.

QUOTE (Gary)I watched on Tuesday as Warley MRC put "No Smoking" stickers all around the club. Apparently even churches have to do this under the new "no smoking in public place" rules. It adds yet more unnecesary eye clutter to a former Tai Chi type environment and gives even more for the health and safety geezers to think about.

No doubt Signs of The Times have already produced "No Smoking" signs for modellers to stick all around their layout on and in every building and coach.

Happy modelling
Gary

There was actually no need to put up signs. evry public building is now non smoking. if anyone lights up simply ask them to "put that light out!!!" or stand outside. this is not a health and safty issue, it is a legal one and the smokers know perfectly well what they can and cant do. what they dont know is weather they have the guts to inforce it and stickers wont change that in the slightest. (this is also an issue in my own club and i await with interest to see what will happen!)

QUOTE (dwb @ 17 May 2007, 18:22) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>> they are obliged to follow most of the same safety protocols that apply to the main-line operators
A benefit of this is that you can watch the practical application of protocols like "Token" working on single lines, locked local lever frames, trains being brought to a stand before being called on into a passing loop. I was particularly struck by this when reading pages 88 to 92 or "Railway Signalling and Track Plans" by Bob Essery last week. The text and the detail can be rather dry, but being able to remember my day trip to the Swanage railway last Easter Sunday gave me the real world example to provide that extra understanding. For example there is a lever frame at the park & ride station at Norden which is unlocked by the token for that section of the line. In order for the locomotive to be able to run round the train, it has to be inserted in the frame first.

David

Yes BUT token working is not helath and safty -its common sence! its a very elegent soloution to the single track problem. i think on the preserved lines the running is actually very good but it is such a huge let down in other areas.

I should say that i think there are a couple of exceptions to the rule. i think Didcot and the NRM and Shildon are wonderfull museums. and didcot would make a good model.

Peter

Getting back to the original topic, the appeal of modelling a preserved line would seem to be 1) Big locos on small trains (eg MN pacific with 4 coaches) 2) Mixture of locomotive stock, steam, diesel, dmu, varied regions etc 3) Possibility of also using bang up to date stock -e.g Voyager at Norden, HSTs at Minehead.
4) Ease of access to prototype information. 5) Plenty of MaRK 1 coaches
My local line has the following locos all available rtr IN OO... MN Pacific, Rebuilt and Unrebuilt WC/BB pacifics, Standard 5MT 4-6-0, Ivatt 2MT 2-6-2T 9F, A4, "Thomas", 08 and 33 on the diesel front, Class 121 DMU
Yet it all seems strangely un-appealing as a model... too easy maybe?
Maybe the 'just playing trains' jibe still sticks??

QUOTE (pedromorgan @ 21 May 2007, 06:08) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Sorry i have been away for a few days and i have not had time to reply to posts so i am playing catchup.
I think i explained it pretty well in my origional post "I really wouldnt feel any inclination or enthusiasm to recreate them in miniture.". i wouldnt want to make a model of something i dont particularly like.
No Gary. unfortunatly i dont think that. i would love it if that were the case and the preserved lines in the UK would be far better as a result but there are many lines around the country that seem to exist purely to make money and hide behind the word "preservation" in order to get extra funding for their projects. they are really a light railway trying to attract tourists rather than a preservation line.
In a word YES. if they cant do something one way then they should find a way of doing it another way. recently we have been banned from using leaded solder. but do we sit around and winge about it? (ok some do) no we get on and found an altrnative and it works perfectly well. there is no reason at all why the loco sheds cannot have public galleries or viewing areas. i think in one particular case it boils down to lazyness. its something i find very dissapointing and frustrating.
I went to one major line last year which has an incredible collection of rolling stock and all i could see was a USA tank a tamping machine and 2 bary hulks. even though i was within 100 metres of 4 pacifics!!!

I think it is all too easy for railways to point to H&S as an excuse for not making acess a priority.
There was actually no need to put up signs. evry public building is now non smoking. if anyone lights up simply ask them to "put that light out!!!" or stand outside. this is not a health and safty issue, it is a legal one and the smokers know perfectly well what they can and cant do. what they dont know is weather they have the guts to inforce it and stickers wont change that in the slightest. (this is also an issue in my own club and i await with interest to see what will happen!)
Yes BUT token working is not helath and safty -its common sence! its a very elegent soloution to the single track problem. i think on the preserved lines the running is actually very good but it is such a huge let down in other areas.

I should say that i think there are a couple of exceptions to the rule. i think Didcot and the NRM and Shildon are wonderfull museums. and didcot would make a good model.

Peter