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Jason - all noted - I've got copies of the Peco point templates so I'm going to have a play with those in the next day or two and see what I can come up with. The three-way point again is something the modern scene does not like, particularly on a main line - I understand it's all those 'frogs' which need much maintenance, among other things.

Lancs Fusilier - thanks for your recommendation!

Regards,
John
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
i had another look at it this afternoon... (im meant to be a really busy architecture student!) and came up with this idea which involves alot less alterations and no 3 ways!

Regards Jason

 

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
thought i would also add the other 'end' of the line with the additional cross over details... not knowing exact radius figures of track work i will need to check this when i return home again next

regards jason





 

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Your last additional crossover is seriously bad news in signalling terms if you want to use the whole platform length, as westbound trains (the main direction of use in the southmost platform) would have to stop roughly in line with the east end of the point on the adjacent track. Suggest you drop this one and accept that trains from the yard have to run "wrong line" through the station and cross at the east end - one of those annoying limitations that makes a track plan more interesting! This probably impacts back on your east end layout changes too.
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
yes thats no problem John. Its a bit annoying being away from the layout but the upside is i can produce building kits and other items here where i cant get distracted by 'running trains'! Many thanks for your help, the subject is well over my head!

Regards Jason
 

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Thanks to Edwin for his pertinant comments on the 'West' crossover.

My solution:


Uses two curved points, as did the first version which I've crossed out. Gives the Yard line access to and from the central bi-directional road but leaves the lower through platform completely usable without any restriction. (My addition to your drawing is not as neat as your original - I have to admit free-hand sketching has never been a strong point with me!)

Regards,
John
 

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QUOTE (John Webb @ 22 Oct 2008, 15:36) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Uses two curved points, as did the first version which I've crossed out. Gives the Yard line access to and from the central bi-directional road but leaves the lower through platform completely usable without any restriction.

If I was the engineer responsible for planning the track and signalling here, I'd also remove the short section between John's new crossover and the existing crossover near the platform ends. All this does is allow a train to enter the yard from the bottom platform while another is leaving the middle platform westbound. Pretty unusual for both of these to be happening at once. Depending on the precise status of the yard you might replace the point at the west end of this section with a trap point rather than removing it entirely.
 

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I think I see what you are getting at. In other words the 'Future Yard' track comes off the inner main line after it has been reformed from the bidirectional line and lower through road.
On the other hand the suggested arrangement does lend itself to some nice simultaneous parallel moves!

Note to Jason: Are the curved points the Peco "Double Radius" SL86 & SL87 or their electrofrog equivilents?
If so, I don't have printed templates of these. If you have a spare one or two (one of each hand, preferably) and can scan them to create images as Jpeg files (150/300dpi will be adequate). I'll send you a PM (Private Message) via the Forum with my e-mail address for you to send them to me in due course.

Regards,
John
 

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Discussion Starter · #32 ·
Yes the curved points are the Peco 'Double Radius' SL86 & SL87. I dont have any loose ones at home but i do have them on the peco photocopy sets. I will phone home and get a set scanned and emailed to me asap and forward them onto you John. I like Edwins idea as i can use points I already have!

Regards Jason
 

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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
well that went fairly well! my mother is not very good at using the computer! after a 30min. step by step over the phone i managed to get a scanned image emailed to me! i have now emailed it to you John. Its about 500 pixels across... my Photoshop CS3 works in pixels not dpi i think it should be a workable size. Many thanks for the trouble you are taking in helping me out! When i next go home i will have my work cut out with alterations!

Regards Jason
 

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I spent a bit of time last night with copies of the Peco templates (the dotted white lines are the continuation of the track centrelines):

1. Your original layout at the 'East' end on the main lines, done mainly to get the spacing of the main lines and the location of the point to the DMU siding - this is just visible at the righthand end of the picture:



2. A possible facing points arrangement:



Uses two of the double curved points and two of the large radius points. This would seem to be pretty close to what you need with a minimum of disturbance to the remaining points - may need just a little minor adjustment to get things exactly right.

Regards,
John
 

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Discussion Starter · #35 ·
the outer rail of the curved points (straight line) measurement is 10 inches or 25.5cm roughly! I had to ask over the phone.

I will have a look at the above in a minute when i have finished cooking my dinner!

Regards Jason
 

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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
thankyou John, that does seem to get over the problem! I am out today but later on this afternoon i will have a go at drawing up the solutions and posting them as a whole track plan to try and get a 'finished' layout! In the second picture i cant quite make out which points are curved! Could you just add a note on it for me! Many thanks for your help, its much apreciated.

Regards Jason
 

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The two points in the middle - slightly paler in appearance - are the curved points. Everything else is large radius straight.
You might get away with using medium points instead for the facing crossover point on the inner main line and for the line off to the South Bay platform, engine shed road etc. - would give you just a bit more space between the points to make any minor adjustments in.

I'm about to put something together summarising modern signalling because there are some decisions to be made about the type of signal you would prefer before we start putting them on the layout. Probably be a day or two before I can do that.

Regards,
John

PS I suppose the line is not to be electrified with overhead wiring? This will fundamentally affect the signals to be used.
 

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Discussion Starter · #38 ·
right i have had a good look at the layouts and linked it all together. The drawings arnt as good as my past ones as i have run out tracing paper! I will look at the exact moving of the points when i am home at the begining of November.

The line is not to be electrified with over head wiring. Its going to be 'generaly' based around local running in Somerset, so locos etc are all desiel powered.

Thankyou for your help on this I can see it coming along and has certainly improved the layout design!

Regards Jason





 

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OK - all noted. I think it most likely the prototype would use three-aspect colour light signals in such a situation - clearly the traffic isn't quite high enough to warrent electrification which would automatically use four-aspect signals for maximum traffic use. Three-aspect are also slightly less complex to operate in model form.

I'll put up something in the next day or two about the prototype signals that could be used and the limited range of model signals that are actually available to use! Then we'll look at putting them on the layout.

Regards,
John
 

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Right, first post on modern signals:


The top part of the diagram show three-aspect signalling. The signals are spaced apart a bit over the braking distance of the fastest trains on the line so that if a train approaches a signal at the 'Caution' aspect (Yellow, by the way, in railway terms, not amber!) it has sufficient room to stop by the time it gets to the next, possibly Red 'Stop' aspect.

The lower diagram shows 4-aspect signals. They are spaced apart from each other at the braking distance of the slower trains (ie locals) using the line. They then continue to use the single yellow aspect as their 'Caution' warning. The faster trains then use the 'Double Yellow' as their 'Caution' warning and start braking sooner and are thus able to stop.

Both the above are for lines uninterrupted by points and stations, and the function of signals at these places I'll cover next.

Regards,
John
 
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