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Hello Alan,
Have just had a very enjoyable read through your loft layout thread, it being one that had not come across before, and it makes a very pleasurable and interesting read, including the videos. So good you rediscovered your interest and enthusiasm again, well done the little controller.
It’s a really nice layout, and am interested that you bit the bullet in terms of moving from DC to DCC; but have to say being still very much in DC mode in my loft, which has also had a pause in activity for a good few years, until recently, but also am impressed that you managed to get any electrical contracting work done in your loft office, with such a distraction being beside you.
Your pictures of your now defunct DC control panel and track diagram, was also very impressive, but the now use of the extended front baseboard area and new scenery looks great. Also well done on the recent challenging baseboard cut outs, in finished areas !
Good luck with the ongoing / future development of the layout, including all the more recently added new signals / etc. Look forward to seeing things progress.
Thanks, Cheers Norm
 

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Discussion Starter · #42 ·
Hi Norm,
Thanks for taking the time to read and comment on my efforts.
Yes , there were some days when not much office work got done

I am so glad I did "bite the bullet" as you say, I have only ever purchased DCC sound locos and included or added smoke generators where possible, and have achieved a level of realism (with the sound mostly) that I could only dream of when running DC.
I remember having some units called "Chuff Boxes" I think, That generated a chuffing sound that speeded up as you increased the voltage on the track, it was pretty good for its day, but the sound was still localised and didn't fade off into the distance as the train moved farther away as it now does with DCC, the smoke is a personal thing, some people don't like it as it is not that realistic, but my grandchildren love it ! , and as I think I've said before, you can turn it off.
I have followed your build on and off over the years , you have a very nice layout, and its good to see you are back in the mix again.
Looking forward to some more recent pics.
Regards
Alan
 

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Alan Good Afternoon Hope you are well, Can i ask what is the longest ( Trainsafe ) Case that you have as i have some long Trix trains 6 car Grey Mouse SBB and i do not want to keep taking them Apart all the time , also once you have the train in the case do they slide around or are they stable for a better word. Thank You
Babs
 

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Discussion Starter · #44 ·
Hi Babs
I am fine thank you, hope you and yours are well too.
The longest case I have is 210cm, that houses my Orient Express + 7 coaches that is approx. 190cm long.
That one has wall bracket support centres at 120cm apart.
They make cases from 30cm to 300cm
Most of the ones I have are in what they call the short range, that have support centres at 30cm apart , the longest in that range is 180cm
Regarding the stability, I can only comment on the "vision" system that has brass tracks embedded in the base that allows you do drive your trains in and out of the storage boxes. They are reasonably stable, obviously it is best to hold them as level as possible, and I think from experience that it depends on the loco etc inside them as to how much they roll when tilted in the horizontal plane. As for tilting or leaning them back and forth, again the trains stay pretty stable. I'm pretty sure I answered this question for someone else, but cant seem to find it, but we're talking about 25 / 30 degrees before the train starts to tilt.
If you have looked into it, you will know that this system is pretty expensive , they do a couple of other ranges that are a bit less expensive, one with flat base purely for display and one with "tracks" grooved into the base where you need to push the trains in and out onto your layout.
Hope this is of help to you
Regards
Alan

Stay Safe All
 

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Alan Good Afternoon Thank You for all the info Sorry for the delay in replying, It is going to need more thought i am torn between the see through version or the carry version to protect the train you can still load the train onto the tracks in the same method.Thank you and stay safe.
Babs
 

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English translation of the Viessmann Catenary Book

Hi all, hope you are all safe and well.

Well, I've invested quite a bit of time and effort into this, but I have finally created my own English version of the Viessmann catenary book (for my own personal use of course)



I used a "Scanmarker" text scanner, that can recognise many languages and translate between any two, I started off using the translation mode to scan text direct to my desk top publishing software, but as you probably know, a direct translation of most
languages does not appear exactly as we would say it in English. So I found it quicker and easier to scan the German text direct into Google Translate, where I could then proof read and edit as required before copying and pasting into my DTP document.
In conjunction with this, I used a "iScan" A4 hand held photo scanner to scan the images off the pages. I then, cropped and edited them as required in Faststone Image Viewer, (which despite the "Viewer" in its title, is a very capable piece of photo editing software), before, again, pasting them into my DTP document.



I'm very pleased with the results and although some of the translation may not have come out exactly as written, I have already learned a great deal more about the installation of the Viessmann catenary system, and its components, than I did before starting this project, and as a bonus, I've also learnt a few German words and phrases too, although I doubt they'd get me very far asking for the nearest pizza restaurant




The photo above shows the Viessmann book, (top), and my copy below it.

Why Viessmann doesn't produce an English version has always puzzled me, as I'm sure they would sell many copies.

Regards
Alan
 

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Hats off to you Alan, that is a fantastic piece of work with the translation. Any chance of a digital copy becoming available?

That was rather selfish of me.

I really enjoyed installing Viessmann overheads and catenary on a previous layout and am actively planning to add it to the latest. I have all the Viessmanm literature including their ring binder which is a mine of information but, yes, this too is only produced in German.



I have also been looking at Sommerfeldt and have bought their bilingual booklet which is referenced here on their website. I believe that Scalology in the UK are now importing Sommerfeldt.

I know that some modellers experiment with using a combination of Viessmann and Sommerfeldt and there is some logic to it as the mast system of Viessmann is superb whist the knitting of Sommerfeldt takes some beating.

Anyway ........ keep up the good work Alan and ............... well I admire your skill with scanning, way better than I could ever achieve.

Best regards ................. Greyvoices (alias John)
 

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Good Afternoon Alan You really have a very large on your hands i admire you. I have found a lot of German companies do not make the effort to translate to English Uhlenbrock which is the system of DCC i use were forced too by British Agents so they could sell more , but they are lazy IMHO. Babs
 

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Discussion Starter · #50 ·
QUOTE (Greyvoices @ 6 Jul 2020, 09:40) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Hats off to you Alan, that is a fantastic piece of work with the translation. Any chance of a digital copy becoming available?

That was rather selfish of me.

I really enjoyed installing Viessmann overheads and catenary on a previous layout and am actively planning to add it to the latest. I have all the Viessmanm literature including their ring binder which is a mine of information but, yes, this too is only produced in German.

Best regards ................. Greyvoices (alias John)

Hi John,
I would love to be able to pass this on, but fear I would definitely be in breach of Viessmann's copyright

I too have the Sommerfeldt manual, which was of a general use, but I still needed more specific instruction on the Viessmann products as that is what I have already purchased.
The Sommerfeldt catenary looks really nice, and would seem to be more accurate, but more work required to put it together, whereas the Viessmann product is a bit more "plug and play" as they say nowadays.

Regards
Alan
 

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Discussion Starter · #51 ·
QUOTE (Babz @ 6 Jul 2020, 11:16) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Good Afternoon Alan You really have a very large on your hands i admire you. I have found a lot of German companies do not make the effort to translate to English Uhlenbrock which is the system of DCC i use were forced too by British Agents so they could sell more , but they are lazy IMHO. Babs

Hi Babs,
I said I like a challenge

I've quite enjoyed doing it to be honest. It has meant that I have actually read the manual thoroughly, whereas I normally just flip through instruction manuals and then do my own thing, then only go back to them when something doesn't work correctly


Regards
Alan
 

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Discussion Starter · #52 ·
Hi All,

I've made a tentative start and put together my first catenary mast



Its a wheel tensioning mast (4164) to which I have added the transformer set (4105). I've added a bit of weathering and rust stains.



This will be located at the start , or end, depending on your viewpoint, as its a shuttle route, up on the top level, at the end (or start
) of the line.



I have only placed it roughly in position, as I can't work properly up in that area without the aid of the "Topside Crawler" (see earlier in this thread), which I will have to dig out and assemble.
Once it is fixed firmly in place, I will work away from it, installing catenary and masts as I go. This will be a good place to start, as its probably the hardest section. Not only for access, but once I'm past the station, I have a bridge and tunnel to deal with.

Regards
Alan
 

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HI Alan That looks Fantastic great project. Are you going to do the whole layout or just certain Sections.
Babs
 

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Discussion Starter · #54 ·
Hi, Babs,
No, just the shuttle line up to the little station at the top of the layout. Its a fair bit to do, as it comes down over 3 levels.
On the plus side, there are no visible points to deal with, but I have to span a bridge, go through 4 tunnels and deal with the final gradient that is visible on the lower level before terminating at the main station in a similar way to the top station where I'm starting. Should be fun

Regards
Alan
 

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Discussion Starter · #56 ·
Houston, .. we have a problem !

When I initially purchased the bulk of my catenary masts, I chose the Reichsbahn masts, as I liked their more "old fashioned" look.
After a bit of research, I realized that I would need some "special" masts, such as the wheel tensioners, bridge masts etc, to get a more prototypical look.
None of these "special" masts come with the Reichsbahn style boom, first problem. Once I had translated some of the Viessmann book, I noticed that you could buy replacement booms of the standard line mast type (Re 75). Great, and they came in different lengths as an added bonus
Problem solved,
I will buy some replacement booms and fit them in place of the Reichsbahn booms. Which I did.
WRONG!!!!
On fitting the first mast away from the wheel tensioner/transformer mast, I noticed the catenary wire rose up, oops Get the loco up there and see what's happening



As I feared, the catenary was too high for the pantograph!
On closer inspection of the masts, and booms, the design of the Reischbahn boom makes it about 7 to 8 mm lower than the standard boom, so I assume the the standard mast is shorter or has its boom cut outs lower down.
So I re-fitted the Reischbahn boom and that brought the catenary level down, so I tried the loco again.



The catenary wire looks more level now and the pantograph rides on it, but only just, the catenary wire pushes the pantograph down by no more than about 3mm.
My question, before I go any further. Is it normal/prototypical for the pantograph to extend that far up in normal running ? Personally, I would like to see it running about mid extension.
I have had a look at the bridge mast (4129) as I have some of those, they are shorter, and if I fit a Rieschbahn boom on them (I have spares, as I got some middle masts that I won't be using). That would bring the catenary down another 7 to 8 mm which is where I'd like to see it.
I have to reduce the catenary height to go through the tunnels anyway, and I have already reduced the height of a couple of masts (that wasn't the easiest of jobs) to get a decline in the catenary as it approaches the tunnel.
Perhaps the bridge masts are a better option ?
Any comments or advise appreciated
Regards
Alan
 

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Discussion Starter · #57 ·
Well, I'm up and running
I know I haven't given anyone much time to reply to my previous post, but I'm an impatient bugger, and decided to press on with my own ideas
Right or wrong, I think the pantograph looks better running more compressed.
I have used the couple of masts that I previously shortened to get me started and bring the catenary height down a bit.



I have had to deal with a small curve at the end of the line where the track follows the contours of the platform and once past the station at the other end, I have had to switch the mast to the opposite side of the track for lack of a level surface on the near side.



This is the last mast before I get to the bridge span. I have offered up the brackets supplied with the bridge masts, and they do not seem to fit well to my viaduct bridge. It says in the instructions that it will fit with any Marklin or similar bridge.
Its a long time since it was installed but I would imagine its a Faller kit, so I have ordered some kibri 39754 console bridge supports, as recommended in the Viessmann manual, as they seem to be more universal in the way they fit.
I have also ordered some more Viessmann 4129 bridge masts. While I'm waiting for those bits to arrive, I will apply a bit of weathering to the fitted masts and have a go at shortening a few more Rieschbahn masts.
Regards
Alan
 

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My only thought on the height of the catenary wire is clearance at level crossings for high side vehicles.

Your installation looks good.

David
 

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Discussion Starter · #60 ·
Thanks for the positive comments guys, John, from someone who has installed Viessmann catenary, that means a lot.
David, thanks also, I won't be having to deal with any level crossings as I'm just doing the shuttle line.
TBH, I was looking at a training video this afternoon for Indian electrified railways, just to see how the catenary is fed from the mast transformer, and I must admit, the pantographs did look like they were extended quite high.
But on a funnier note, they were going on about the importance of safety with the electrical apparatus, but every train shown in the video had open or no doors at all, speeding along the track with passengers literally hanging out of them

As I said in the earlier post, I need to reduce the catenary height to get through the tunnel portals. This afternoon I opened up the tunnel catenary set (Viessmann 4195) for a bit of forward planning and when I put together a mast, the underside of the brass tape is practically the same as my catenary height, so that makes me feel better about what I'm doing.



Regards
Alan
 
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