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I intend to have a coal wagon with coal sacks to be off loaded on a siding into trucks- so my question us, what was that drop off point called ?
 
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Coal would be loose in the wagon as loaded into the wagon at the pit. It was put in sacks by the individual coal merchants, often by backing-up their cart or lorry and dropping the wagon door onto the back of the vehicle. Or the coal was unloaded into heaps of the different types of coal, often separated by walls made of old sleepers - there are several models of heaps like that available.
In the north of England, particularly the NE, raised tracks allowed unloading from bottom discharge doors in the floor of the wagon - these were known as 'staithes'. This term is sometimes used for other forms of coal-handling, but otherwise there was usually one siding in a goods yard reserved for the coal deliveries and known simply as the 'coal siding'. Often kept away from sidings handling other goods due to the dirt and dust the coal siding could cause and to allow access for the lorries etc.
 

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Bottom discharge bays were also known as Coal Drops, as the coal dropped down…

The, often sleeper built, coal compartments have been called various names, including staithes, coal stacks, bays, etc.

As mentioned above staithes is properly the name for a coal to boat/ barge/ ship loading point, often bottom discharge, from hoppers or bottom door equipped wagons.

Also some places used devices to tip the wagon up on end, discharging through the end door. (often the end door location on Railway Company wagons would be indicated by a white line, PO wagons not so commonly.) Hornby used to have a working version of these.

Tipplers, where the wagon is rotated sideways, sometimes completely upside down, to empty the wagon were also used,
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks for that info - some of which I knew but I was asking about coal that may have already been loaded into sacks & come to towns for distribution so I have decided to have these open wagons be emptied inside Goods Sheds in the modelling scene.
 

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Thanks for that info - some of which I knew but I was asking about coal that may have already been loaded into sacks & come to towns for distribution so I have decided to have these open wagons be emptied inside Goods Sheds in the modelling scene.
Coal was never ever pre loaded into sacks before arrival in the yard, that affectation being a very modern contrivance post rail delivery, always being loose and weighed into sacks by the Merchant. If you look at Coal Merchants delivery lorries you will see that they always carry a set of scales, this was to mollify customers who wanted to ensure they were not getting short measure. Coal would also NEVER be allowed into a goods shed where storage of such delicate items such as ladies fashions, soap, flour sacks etc.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Mmmm looks like I will have to provide a staithe then to unload coal.
 

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Mmmm looks like I will have to provide a staithe then to unload coal.
Doan -eeh go furgetin they girt thick sacks then. They'm full'd ever' day, empt'd down coal 'oles, thun took baak fur fullin' 'gen. Thicky spud seks be gud for now't, yum gorra ave girt evy wuns..... and my goodness gracious me, they do hold more black dust than a Sweep's Boy could collect in a whole week.

Julian
 

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....I have decided to have these open wagons be emptied inside Goods Sheds in the modelling scene.
I think that is the one place where coal wagons would NOT have been emptied into sacks! Remember that goods sheds were used for the movement of food items. Coal is the last thing wanted in there!
As others have indicated, coal staithes are the way to go - there's plenty of pictures in Ian Alan 'in colour' books of them.

At the risk of going off topic, I have an article on weathering coal wagons here: Weathering 16T Mineral Wagons - Model Railways On-Line

Remember that BR-built 16t mineral wagons were largely NOT fitted with underside doors, so not much point running them over drop shutes!
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Thanks to all for clearing that question up. Back to the drawing board.
 

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Hi Sol,
I have just had a quick look round for you although my personal interest is mainly in German H0. However, if you go to one of the big UK dealers' websites (or even just google the numbers below), and do a search for 'coal merchant' you'll find Ratio kit #532, this is a lovely little thing which would sit and look very nice in your yard. Ideal size for small country station (as I'm sure the erudite contributors above would agree). A small office building and a couple of staithes. Ratio 526 is a collection of sacks with weighing scales too.
It looks like the Little Train Shop in Launceston (Tas) has stocked it, for AUD 23.95 so not breaking the bank, but maybe one of the other Aussie stores might have it. Also, Weinert, the German company have a 'do it yourself' kit out of whitemetal, this is Weinert item 3226, and consists of sleepers for the walls and old rails for the supports, this would not look out of place and you can build your own to add on to the Ratio kit. Vollmer also do a kit for wooden staithes, I think you could get 5 or 6 staithes from it (Vollmer 45717).
Hope this helps, because it sounds like a really nice scene.
6991
PS my moniker 6991 is Acton Burnell Hall, which I caught pulling the Pines Express through Southampton while trainspotting one day. Long time ago and now in Bulli, NSW !!
 

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Remember that BR-built 16t mineral wagons were largely NOT fitted with underside doors, so not much point running them over drop shutes!
Wagons with bottom doors have two small white stripes, angled outwards in a V formation on the side doors.

Ex Private Owner, PO, wagon with side, end, and bottom doors. BR P series number, and BR pattern marking of door positions.

20080


Ex PO wagons as running in BR times, P series numbers applied over the remains of the pre war PO liveries. The right hand wagon has side and bottom doors, but no end door.

20084


Ministry Of Transport Slope Sided wagon with side, end, and bottom doors.

Train Land vehicle Wheel Vehicle Rolling stock


Ex Ministry Of Transport Slope Sided wagon in BR livery, with side, end, and bottom doors.

Train Wheel Vehicle Rolling stock Track


Some of the BR 16 tonners originally had bottom doors, making the brake gear single sided, as a cross shaft could not be fitted.

BR 16 tonner with bottom doors, but no top flap doors.

20079


Like the top flap doors, apparently insisted on by some unions, which were done away with on later builds, the bottom doors often went, or were welded closed, when some wagons were re bodied or heavily repaired, later in their careers.

Early 16 toner with pressed steel end door. Fabricated side doors, no bottom doors.

20085


Another 16 tonner without bottom doors. From the Airfix, now Dapol, kit. Shewing the non door end, and brake cross shaft.

20086


D.D. Sylvester’s coal yard, sleeper built storage bins, at Ffrwd Locks…(made from individual sleepers…)

20087



20088
 

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Hi Sol,

I can remember coal being delivered to sidings that were not equipped with staithes or any specialist means of storing coal on the ground other than in non-contained heaps. Not all coal merchants had the wherewithal to pay for even a modest amount of infrastructure so would open the side door and let the coal fall to the ground. Bagging up that coal they would then start to bag up in the rail wagon itself. I watched this happening in a siding in Bury St.Edmunds in the 1950's even though further over in the yard was a purpose built coal handling facility. A merchant had a set time to unload a wagon before demurrage became payable. 48 hours comes to mind ............. and this link Hansard 1940 is quite illuminating. Mr Burkes comments are worth noting.

I believe that the siding was called the coal siding. Later, in the early 1960's I had a summer job loading scrap from a lorry into a wagon in that very siding. I looked older than my 13 years so the scrap merchant assumed that I was the requisite age for such temporary work ... 14. Below is a link to a photo of Bury Yard but considerably before my time ................. though 50 years later it didn't look much different.

HMRS link - BSE yard in 1911

So it is ok to use a no frills goods siding for coal deliveries to merchants. I would suggest that a weighbridge at the yard entrance could be a good touch but not needed.

Years later, when working on the railway, I had dealings with the location at Cambridge Station that was dubbed the "coal yard". No coal had been unloaded there for decades but the name stuck. All gone now under the guided busway.

Best regards ............... Greyvoices (alias John)
 
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