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Just a couple of days too late for Warley, what were they thinking!

Just appeared on the Hattons website in the past few minutes, the BR Blue Class 56 R2645.

See the Hornby website for more info: http://www.hornby.com/locomotives-89/r2645/

A little over the odds at £80 perhaps (Hattons' price) , but I've just ordered one in excitement. Just past the 2pm cut off for guaranteed next day delivery, but fingers crossed!

Ashley
 

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QUOTE (ashleyh @ 5 Dec 2007, 00:29) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Just a couple of days too late for Warley, what were they thinking!
Ashley


I'll bet Hornby are as frustrated as everyone else!
 

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It may have been deliberate to give all traders a level playing field. If it was good on them. There are lots of us who can never make Warley.
 

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QUOTE (Bilbo @ 5 Dec 2007, 09:09) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>It may have been deliberate to give all traders a level playing field. If it was good on them. There are lots of us who can never make Warley.

Well said - it may be a trend that will be more common in the future & as a trader I welcome anything that levels the playing field.
 

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QUOTE Well said - it may be a trend that will be more common in the future & as a trader I welcome anything that levels the playing field

The examples given of fairness was Rails of Sheffield and Hattons. Would you still welcome it given that its the smaller trader who attends model railway shows? I'm sorry but I see it as sucking up to the big boys and small traders should be allowed to have an opportunity of some ready sales at a show to help them compete and survive. If I was a small trader doing the show circuit I'd be cheesed by this "new" fairness idea.

The Class 56 should have been at Warley!

Nuff said!

Happy modelling
Gary

PS if new items now make their debut at Ally Pally or Glasgow then eyebrows will be raised...

PPS it was the first Warley I have attended where there has not been a hot new loco available. Do Hornby and Bachmann want people buzzing at shows or not?
 

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QUOTE (Gary @ 5 Dec 2007, 11:11) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>The examples given of fairness was Rails of Sheffield and Hattons. Would you still welcome it given that its the smaller trader who attends model railway shows? I'm sorry but I see it as sucking up to the big boys and small traders should be allowed to have an opportunity of some ready sales at a show to help them compete and survive. If I was a small trader doing the show circuit I'd be cheesed by this "new" fairness idea.

The Class 56 should have been at Warley!

Nuff said!

Happy modelling
Gary

PS if new items now make their debut at Ally Pally or Glasgow then eyebrows will be raised...

PPS it was the first Warley I have attended where there has not been a hot new loco available. Do Hornby and Bachmann want people buzzing at shows or not?


Gary - I really don't understand your comments in the first paragraph, it's almost as if you did not read & take in the comments by Bilbo & myself.

Another thing - I have asked you before in the past if you quote me please give me the courtesy to leave my name in the quote as I do yours ! It also makes it easier for other people to follow the gist of the discussion.

Maybe the 56 should have been at Warley but why Warley & not elseware ? Since Warley I have spoken to a number of traders who did attend & a few of them are of the opinion that Warley is now past it's prime & is getting to be too much trouble for what they actually get out of it.
 

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QUOTE (dbclass50)Maybe the 56 should have been at Warley but why Warley & not elseware ? Since Warley I have spoken to a number of traders who did attend & a few of them are of the opinion that Warley is now past it's prime & is getting to be too much trouble for what they actually get out of it.

Interesting. the trader i am involved with has sort of agreed that if we have something special to show or a nice new release then we will do the show again. but we did about the same trade wise as we do at scaleforum and chatham at conciderably less expense.
I dont think its going to becoem a 'normal' show for us.

Peter
 

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The reason "why Warley" is that it has the biggest gate, with the possible exception of Model Rail Scotland , where I believe a much higher proportion of the gate are general public families

18,000+ railway modellers makes it the best possible opportunity for a RTR manufacturer , to whom stand rent at a trade show is a modest routine expense (How much do Hornby spend attending Nuremburg? The airfares and hotel bills alone probably exceed the total cost of doing Warley). They may have as much as 15% of the hobby through the door at Warley- what better opportunity is there for a release? Ally Pally is about 2/3rds of that gate

Whereas stand rent for a small trader is make or break :
QUOTE but we did about the same trade wise as we do at scaleforum and chatham at conciderably less expense.
I dont think its going to becoem a 'normal' show for us

Hence my comments about EXCEL elsewhere

Dapol might be miffed if you suggest their N gauge Hymek wasn't a "hot new loco"
 

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To be fair on Warley/NEC Nurnberg is very, very different. The main one being that Nurnberg is (or is supposed to be) a trade only fair lasting several days. Air fairs to Nurnberg are far less than than you think if booked in advance.
 

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The point I was trying to make was slightly different actually - to a small specialist trader , stand rent is a massive item, and an expensive venue makes the exercise pointless. To Hornby , stand rent at Warley is a bagatelle - an element in a sub-heading of the marketing budget . On the other hand 18,000 people through the door means huge market penetration. Release the loco at Warley and 10-15% of the whole hobby will see it. Hornby don't even sell anything off their stand I think , so the whole exercise is simply a promotional cost.

dbclass50:
QUOTE Maybe the 56 should have been at Warley but why Warley & not elseware ? Since Warley I have spoken to a number of traders who did attend & a few of them are of the opinion that Warley is now past it's prime & is getting to be too much trouble for what they actually get out of it.

For Hornby , numbers through the door are all that matters - I suspect that if there's less than say 10,000 gate its not worth them attending a show with their stand. 25% on the stand rent doesn't matter - 25% off the gate is fatal

The small trader is trying to make a decent financial return - 25% on the stand rent would kill him. He's trying to get something completely different out of attending the show . I can see why it makes sense to release a new loco at Warley not Folkestone - at the same time I can also see why Euroscalemodels would get a far better return at Folkestone than at Warley. The two things are chalk and cheese - you can't judge one by the other

P.S.

For a "new RTR diesel thread" this one's way off topic. Never mind the market release strategy - what do folk think of the loco?
 

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QUOTE (pedromorgan @ 6 Dec 2007, 15:26) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Well. comming back on topic, i thought the loco looked very good. although its really not my kind of thing. its far too ugly for my layout!
I am assuming it has the same mech as the other recent hornby releases??

Peter

***If it was to be judged by the image at the top of this thread, if I was into diseasels I'd not even look at it - Its a really bad presentation, low detail, wrong angle, lousy technique & no "presence" at all.

Hornby really do need to fire whever does (and whoever approves) their marketing presentation quality & publicity images - One isn't doing his job and the other isn't worth paying for the work done... make up your own mind as to which is which :)

Between the PDF images such as the one at the top of this page (+ many others recently) and the appalling Elite image they use on posters & packaging they have managed to make themselves look very toy like indeed! Surely they must value their brand image better than they are demonstrating!

Regards

Richard
 

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I do agree that this fixation with side images really does not show any model at its best. It also tends to make the annual catalogue very bland. What would be much nicer is a series of views of the loco (not all three quarter like Bachmann)

Don't agree the overall concept looks Toy like. Actually I think the Hornby presentation is quite sophisticated.

The model looks very good- even though I'm not in the market for a large freight diesel. Could be tempted to buy the blue one if it was £25 cheaper. However price levels being charged mean I now only buy locos that I really want for my layout,rather than all the ones I think look nice

Russell
 

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Whatever opinions folk have about side on pics they do make for an interesting comparison!

Old side on:-



New side on:-



Happy modelling
Gary
 

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Side on makes a good comparison for liveries, but to me it often shows "features" that are not too desirable, such as locomotive/tender gaps & huge amounts of daylight between pony wheels & underframes, on the other hand it is at least "honest" in it's presentation.

Another thing that often spoils the look of an otherwise fine model is parts of the Forth Bridge being attached to the front of locomotives & rolling stock.
 

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Does anyone have one of these in the flesh yet?

Trying to judge these from preproduction photos which may or may not have a CGI element is not going to get us anywhere terribly useful at this stage but the models were on display in the flesh, final version, at Warley and I would have thought someone would have a view by now.

If we are going to stare at photos not models and criticise , possibly the key side view would that of the prototypes - there were/are differences between Romanian and BREL built locos I believe

I would expect the coupling to be in an NEM pocket on this - the 31 and 60 feature one
 

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does anyone know what its features are going to be - I still think that hornbys class 31 in Fragonset colours is by far the best diesel they have ever done! But then the Fragonset liverys were an amazing design for railways - why cant more companys do liverys like that !!
 

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QUOTE (Ravenser @ 7 Dec 2007, 03:20) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Does anyone have one of these in the flesh yet?

Trying to judge these from preproduction photos which may or may not have a CGI element is not going to get us anywhere terribly useful at this stage but the models were on display in the flesh, final version, at Warley and I would have thought someone would have a view by now.

If we are going to stare at photos not models and criticise , possibly the key side view would that of the prototypes - there were/are differences between Romanian and BREL built locos I believe

I would expect the coupling to be in an NEM pocket on this - the 31 and 60 feature one

***Its not criticising the model at all actually - far from it, I am simply saying that if indeed the model is "a new level of accuracy" as claimed then the publicity is letting Hornby down dramatically. Good print material will do far more than any single show to create a buzz about the product, as modellers are inevitably avid catalog and publicity readers.

What other industry gets away with charging for a catalog like its a new best selling book!! The cost to do this right is so little different that its a crime NOT to!

A nice perspective shot with all "in the box added detail items" added and the loco on a high quality super-detailed "non-hornby made" layout would do wonders for the imagination and create a real "I want one" vs the poor quality imagination free "mughot" on the printed pages that we see now.

I'm sure that the owners of some of the fine layouts featured at exhibitions or in mags would be pleased to oblige too.

Richard
DCCconcepts
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I received my R2645 BR Blue 56 from Hattons yesterday morning, it was late last night before I got a chance to test run it.

I'm delighted to report that it runs very nicely, though with quite a sqeak in one direction (this problem was identified in one of the magazine revies, and apparently goes away after a little extra lubrication, I will do this later today when I attempt to fit a DCC chip. My lights also work fine front and rear.

One small criticism is that a return to tissue paper for the packaging seems to have lead to slight rubbing of the paint on the dome of each cab, making it slightly shiny in places. I had the same issue with my Royal Scot and Patriot locomotives a couple of months back. It seems a retrograde step to me, as many recent relases have been wrapped in plastic/silicone film which solved the problem, why go backwards?

Another way of reducing the likelihood of paint rubbing is to use a slightly more glossy finish, like bachmann do for example, as again, this is less prone to rubbing.

Overall though, I think I'm holding what is probably the finest 00 Scale diesel model to date. Though of course, as ever, this is open to debate.........

I intend to take some photoies of it in action on our Underground Ernie test track this morning, and if I am feeling brave, I'll do a step by step guide to my DCC chip fitting.
Oh, both roof fans rotate btw.

Ashley
 

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QUOTE (Richard Johnson @ 7 Dec 2007, 02:16) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Good print material will do far more than any single show to create a buzz about the product, as modellers are inevitably avid catalog and publicity readers.

Not forgetting the internet.

Does launching a new model or product really have to be done at a large show, be it Warley or wherever ? Accepting that Warley is one of the largest in terms of gate numbers the big shows still only reach a fraction of modellers. Many of this forums members that I now "know" attended but, I cannot think of one single friend or regular customer that did attend Warley.

Personally, I think there is far too much hype surrounding the big shows & what may or may not be launched.
 
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