[Graham Plowman]

DriverSam,

Probably a need to make a few corrections.

The main issue with the Hornby HST is the power cars. Agree with you on all points that they need replacing. I believe the shape originates from the fact that the models were introduced prior to the production prototype hitting the rails. Even a replacement with the Lima version with new mechanism a la bubble car would be a big step in the right direction.

Hornby upgraded their MKIII coaches a few years ago and are now correct length, correct number of windows and flush glazed. They really are very good now.
The main issue has been the lack of a TGS. This gap has now been filled with a re-introduction of the Lima model with Hornby MKIII bogies fitted and flush glazing. I haven't seen one of these to be able to comment.

I have a set of Lima MKIII's which correctly have blue seats in second class and orange in first, so I'm not quite sure where your information about incorrect seating colours comes from unless blue and orange is incorrect ?
As for buffers, ever heard of a craft knife ?

Graham Plowman

 

[Graham Plowman]

As the author of the 'Ever heard of a craft knife' comment, now being criticised for making the comment, it really surprises me that we have so many 'modellers' who are not prepared to do any modelling these days and expect manufacturers to do it for them perfectly. I can't honestly think of a better de-skilling process!

Loco hauled MKIIIs had buffers whereas those in HST units did not. From a manufacturers' commercial point of view at the time, it would have been cheaper to make one model with buffers than to make two different models. What would have been said if the model was produced without buffers at a time when the majority of these coaches probably were loco hauled ?

I would suggest that today, the best option would be to provide separate buffers to be fitted if required. Don't forget that it costs money to change moulds.

C'mon guys, get real. It really doesn't require much modelling skills to be able to remove buffers ones' self. If you can't do it and are not prepared to learn the skills to do it, then maybe you should question whether a the hobby of railway modelling really is for you.

Graham Plowman

 

[Graham Plowman]

QUOTE (Ron @ 4 Jan 2007, 04:50) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>It looks like this whole buffers issue has got out of hand and the original point missed.....

Ron,

I don't disagree with you as to whether the Lima TGS should or shouldn't have buffers - you are right - it shouldn't.
I just can't get excited and join those individuals who seem to enjoy being on the 'manufacturer bashing bandwagon' when the specific problem being discussed in this thread is so easy to fix - this is a 'storm in a tea cup' issue.

Remember that Hornby stated that they were reintroducing Lima models with minor modifications. In this instance, they replaced bogies, did a bit of flush glazing and that was it. Removing buffers would involve the cost and time of modifying a mould which they evidently chose not to do.

When it comes to correcting manufacturer's mistakes like Bachmanns first release Warship with chassis manufacturing faults where it sat 1mm too low or the Bachmann Std 4 tank with chassis manufacturing faults where the loco was higher at the back than the front, then yes, I totally agree that we shouldn't be fixing manufacturers silly mistakes but removing 4 buffers really isn't in the same league as the major chassis cutting surgery necessary to fix the above Bachmann problems!

Graham Plowman

 

[Graham Plowman]

Ron,

QUOTE I don't dispute that the TGS buffers are easy to cut off, but I will not defend Hornby for ignoring the opportunity to correct this error while they had the chance. For me, it's the fact that if this is such an easy error to fix then why didn't it get sorted at the factory in the first place.

Given the important significance of the HST in the history of our railways I think it deserves better treatment and a more accurate model.

Hornby's own toolings for the other HST Mk3 coaches are very good and the reintroduction of Lima's Power Cars this year will be welcome replacements for the crude old Hornby ones. But it just seems a shame to let the formation down on the quality of one coach (the TGS). Especially when you add the additional livery mistakes on the BR Blue and Grey version together with it's white seats.

After all, as somebody else said before, 30 years is a long time to wait for a decent model of Britain's most successful train.
It's about time somebody took it more seriously and done a proper job of it.

It comes down to commercial reasons and money - and I am not defending this.
Hornby wanted a 'quick fix' for the TGS because they didn't have their own. The Lima option was the quickest way to bring one to market.
It costs money to modify moulds to change anything. It also costs time which of course, is money. Don't forget, they did say that they were re-introducing Lima models with minimal modifications - so we're lucky they even flush glazed the TGS!

Personally, I would have preferred they did their own TGS to the same standard and consistency as their current MKIIIs.

I suspect that the Lima model is a stop-gap and we'll see something better in the future. Sadly, it is this 'toy trainset' mentality that you can just throw disparate vehicles together to make a train that really does a diservice to this hobby.

Graham Plowman