Model Railway Forum banner
121 - 140 of 252 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,661 Posts
Re: Clan Class:
QUOTE (34C @ 5 Jan 2021, 21:03) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>......
When handled appropriately this class is known to have performed well. There may have been detail design aspects that required attention (similar to the poor draughting of the Riddles 8P) but there is unlikely to have been anything fundamentally wrong with the design.

So I gathered - on further reading. It will be interesting to see the proposed new build clan 'Hengis' and how it performs. If it's anything like the Duke of Gloucester (some similarities there) it should be rather good.
 

·
In depth idiot
Joined
·
8,271 Posts
QUOTE (dwb @ 5 Jan 2021, 21:03) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>...I think I was spoilt by last year. I was rather underwhelmed ...
Then again, everything I was interested in from Hornby's 2020 range has yet to arrive...

I am most interested to see how Hornby tackle the 9F, and how they might improve on the Bachmann model, which has some minor shortcomings. There's a lot of competition in announced big engines, and I am very happy with my Bachmann 9Fs as fully effective operational layout locos.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
10,005 Posts
QUOTE I am most interested to see how Hornby tackle the 9F, and how they might improve on the Bachmann model, which has some minor shortcomings. There's a lot of competition in announced big engines, and I am very happy with my Bachmann 9Fs as fully effective operational layout locos.

It will be interesting but as I have two Bachmanns and a Hornby Crosti, I'm not really in the market for another one. With the 50 year anniversary since introducing their first model - think I have one of those somewhere, I can see why they have done what they've done but if I was looking for something with 'heritage' why not a metal bodied 8F to channel the spirit of the old HD model? I would buy one of those ...

QUOTE Then again, everything I was interested in from Hornby's 2020 range has yet to arrive...
You know what - you're right there. I think all I have actually paid for so far is the Hornby Rocket train pack. I missed out on the third class wagon because mine was on pre-order with Rails which ended badly
. I haven't got the Rivarossi stuff I was after yet either.

Maybe I will treat myself to a Coronation set after all ...

David
 

·
In depth idiot
Joined
·
8,271 Posts
Discussion Starter · #124 ·
QUOTE (dwb @ 6 Jan 2021, 00:27) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>It will be interesting but as I have two Bachmanns and a Hornby Crosti, I'm not really in the market for another one ...
Neither am I, but if it delivers on all the small features which aren't quite right on the Bachmann, and performs equal or better, then I'll have the ER BR1F model, if only to encourage Hornby to properly focus on the East Coast.

QUOTE (dwb @ 6 Jan 2021, 00:27) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>... if I was looking for something with 'heritage' why not a metal bodied 8F to channel the spirit of the old HD model? I would buy one of those ...
So fed up of waiting I now have a H-D 8F body on the current Hornby mechanism. Doesn't fix the motor block intrusion with spinning gear shaft, but does at least now pull like a hero, and as I get around to adding detail absent from the H-D body it is very evident how well that old casting 'gets the look'.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,402 Posts
I have 9 Bachmann 9F another converted to an 8MT using a Hornby Brit body (as 91004) and a Hornby Crosti, however this has a tendency to rail climb, what I would rather have is a rebuilt crosti as I recall seeing these working Stanlow to Liversedge traffic whilst the original Crosti was long gone by 1964, with the base mechanism it should surely not be too difficult
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,653 Posts
QUOTE (34C @ 30 Dec 2020, 20:18) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>...From what I have read reported a major problem is the pick up off the split axles, and modification to wiper pick up has made good out of poor runners;...

I missed this little 'nugget' of information the other day.
One way to test this on the workbench would be to attach a wire to the rails and directly to the track pickup connections on the motherboard, bypassing the pickups completely.
I'm going to give it a go, but I don't think this is the problem.
My Dapol 22 is much more jerky at low speed in one direction than it is in the other direction.
The jerking is consistent with movements of the motor armature which suggests to me that the gear ratio is too high for the motor at low speeds such that the motor is not capable of running slow enough to make the loco run smoothly at low speeds.
Another option might be to source a completely different motor such as a Heljan or Mashima. Will be good fun trying to fit them...
 

·
In depth idiot
Joined
·
8,271 Posts
Discussion Starter · #127 ·
QUOTE (Graham Plowman @ 6 Jan 2021, 23:52) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>...One way to test this on the workbench would be to attach a wire to the rails and directly to the track pickup connections on the motherboard, bypassing the pickups completely.
I'm going to give it a go, but I don't think this is the problem.
My Dapol 22 is much more jerky at low speed in one direction than it is in the other direction.
The jerking is consistent with movements of the motor armature which suggests to me that the gear ratio is too high for the motor at low speeds such that the motor is not capable of running slow enough to make the loco run smoothly at low speeds.
Another option might be to source a completely different motor such as a Heljan or Mashima. Will be good fun trying to fit them...
I'll await your findings with interest!

The only Dapol twin bogie model I have really followed in terms of mechanism performance was the class 22, because I anticipated that much of that model's arrangements might be shared with the class 21. It didn't make happy reading, and a glance at the reports of the Dapol 52 and 73 had much in common. Jerky at low speed in one direction only was a regular problem, and I never read a fully satisfactory diagnosis. The closest to an explanation was circuit board malfunctions, due to poorly installed components/component failures. But no one 'went for it' completely bypassing the circuit board to check the effect of direct DC supply to the motor terminals; either returning the models for refund, or sending them to DCC Supplies as the repair agent for rectification.

(So far so good with my sole example of a 21, and that's been generally true of online reports as well, so Dapol may well have got it right with their manufacturing partner this time.)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,653 Posts
QUOTE (34C @ 7 Jan 2021, 22:49) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I'll await your findings with interest!

The only Dapol twin bogie model I have really followed in terms of mechanism performance was the class 22, because I anticipated that much of that model's arrangements might be shared with the class 21. It didn't make happy reading, and a glance at the reports of the Dapol 52 and 73 had much in common. Jerky at low speed in one direction only was a regular problem, and I never read a fully satisfactory diagnosis. The closest to an explanation was circuit board malfunctions, due to poorly installed components/component failures. But no one 'went for it' completely bypassing the circuit board to check the effect of direct DC supply to the motor terminals; either returning the models for refund, or sending them to DCC Supplies as the repair agent for rectification.

(So far so good with my sole example of a 21, and that's been generally true of online reports as well, so Dapol may well have got it right with their manufacturing partner this time.)

I haven't tried bypassing the motherboard on the 22, but I did on the 41 which has Dapol heritage. The problem with the 41 is that it has a motor which is totally unsuited for the job. It runs great on DC control, but it totally unsuitable for DCC or feedback control. Bypassing the motherboard makes no difference. The stupid motor in the 41 managed to burn out a Loksound 4 for me - that's how unsuitable the motor is.

Bypassing the 22 motherboard can also be achieved by connecting wires to the rails directly to the motor, but absolutely critically, removing the decoder before I do it so as not to back-feed and damage the decoder.

To be honest, I think the problem with the 22 is the grearing ratio. I think that it is too high relative to the slowest speed that the motor is capable of ie the motor is not capable of running slow enough and when it does run slow, it is right on the boundary of jerkiness. It doesn't take much speeding up for the jerking to disappear.

I have contacted DCC supplies about this and was told that they had never heard of this problem. I also purchased a replacement motor from them but it made no difference.

I think there is also another dimension in that my definition of smooth slow speed running is somewhat tighter than what most people would accept (I'm very fussy about this). While most people tend to operate 28 speed steps and yank a throttle up to 10 to start, I prefer a more refined start with 128 steps.
However, I have noticed that the jerking is visible on some people's Youtube videos (even if they can't see it and they profess in the video 'this lovely smooth running'), but not all, so it seems to me that the jerking is not across the board.

Will report on progress...
 

·
In depth idiot
Joined
·
8,271 Posts
Discussion Starter · #129 ·
Announced long before Q4 2019, but whatever: the Bachmann 94xx is trickling out. It appears to be the Locomotion version of the 'as preserved' 9400 that has been the first to become available.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,402 Posts
I must be missing something with the Hornby range as in my review coming up is the section on the 9F and none of theose featured are actual photos or drawings so is a new version about to hit the retail market?
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
10,005 Posts
QUOTE so is a new version about to hit the retail market?
We might have a better idea when the next edition of the The Engine Shed comes out from Hornby, maybe next week?
If there's no mention of it apart from being 'new', I would say that it's a long way off.

David
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,189 Posts
QUOTE (kristopher1805 @ 22 Jan 2021, 22:18) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I must be missing something with the Hornby range as in my review coming up is the section on the 9F and none of theose featured are actual photos or drawings so is a new version about to hit the retail market?
Yes - a new 9F was announced as part of the 2021 range - see the introductory text to the steam loco section on page 58 of the catalogue
 

·
In depth idiot
Joined
·
8,271 Posts
Discussion Starter · #133 ·
Exactly. Hornby are going for a completely new 9F model, and the guess is that they are really going to push to boat out to exceed what the Bachmann 9F offers. I will be watching this one with great interest to see how Hornby handle the mechanism challenges the 9F presents, while achieving superior fidelity. Can they do it with no loss of reliability, robustness, smooth drive and traction when compared to the current champion? My Bach 9Fs are something of a touchstone for performance, completely trouble free RTR models, ideal working layout locos. Since Hornby are offering an ER BR1F equipped model, I am definitely in for one, it would be rude not to for a start, and then Hornby do need to be reminded to maintain focus on the dry side.

In other news, the Gresley A1 and A3 too. The photos at the launch were of the existing model, (and quite likely that this will be the case in the catalogue too) but this is getting a makeover with specific mention of a cast footplate. If they would also care to improve the valve gear and plug the hole through the frames immediately rear of the cylinders that would be good. The 2004 Gresley pacific mechanism first seen on the A4 is decidedly behind the pace compared to recent mechanism appearance...
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,402 Posts
OK well I will certainly try one, the old 9F was OK but not a patch on the Bachmann so I sold them off and I do wish they would put some effort into a V2 and a BR class 5MT as Bachmann have neglected these for far too long, also as they have the Crosti already a rebuilt crosti would be good in fact I have one with a crownline adaptation but my dad built it is a hurry (as he usually did) so its not great but maybe only tender drive I still have.

Like you Hatfielder I rate the Bachmann 9F as the champion to beat and I love 'em.
 

·
In depth idiot
Joined
·
8,271 Posts
Discussion Starter · #135 ·
Aha, just had payment requested for the Oxford Rail BR late crest liveried N7 I have had on order for the past year or thereabouts. That release neatly completes the three required for operations from my Hatfield shed - the LNER liveried Belpaire version has been repainted into filthy BR early crest as 69695, the last Belpaire boilered survivor at Hatfield, the other two round tops in early crest and late crest complete the set - and my old kit build with a worn out mechanism can be receiving boiler washout on shed, and shunted around if I ever want to give one of the other locos something to do...
 

·
In depth idiot
Joined
·
8,271 Posts
Discussion Starter · #136 ·
The N7 was delivered at end of afternoon, great service from KS Models, and has been running since. Best mechanism yet of the five Oxford Rail locos (mine are three N7s, the other two were Radial tanks for friends) that I have had to look at. All pick up wipers making good contact, smooth and silent running straight out of the box with a good dead slow available on resistance controller DC, the only sound when running is the wheels on the rails. Fitted a Zimo MX600, and the running is all you could wish for. Properly RTR, refined performance available from out of the box.

The model had a trivial assembly fault which was immediately evident, the cab about 2mm above correct position. Pushed down the cab roof to get the clips at the bottom of the rear spectacle plate to engage in their locations in the main body casting, and that was sorted. (I imagine it wasn't pushed home in the factory so that the clips didn't fully engage, and either vibration or a bump while in transit sprung it free. For any that don't know, the body construction comprises a hefty casting of footplate, side tanks and bunker, with an assembly of moulded plastic parts for the smokebox, boiler, and cab spectacle plates and roof, screw attached at the smokebox end, clips into the bunker end. Very neat indeed, a combination for plenty of weight with good detail where required, and makes modifications easy.)

So there we are, now have all the usual suspects for the last half dozen years of steam worked KX suburban services from RTR: Big Met, Swedey Met, Concrete Mixer, Bongo; and outer sub. occasional supporting cast such as the B12/3, B17, LMR 2-6-4T, BR Std5MT. An ex -GCR A5 would be nice...
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
10,005 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,189 Posts
QUOTE (dwb @ 1 Feb 2021, 17:20) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Accurascale have just announced a GWR Manor 4-6-0
https://accurascale.co.uk/blogs/news/to-the...team-locomotive
There is one due from Dapol so a bit of unnecessary duplication. A Black Five would be a better choice in IMO as the Hornby 2002 tooling is getting a bit long in the tooth and not cutting it against more recent offerings. Then there is the K4 2-6-0 that seems to be constantly ignored.
 

·
In depth idiot
Joined
·
8,271 Posts
Discussion Starter · #139 ·
QUOTE (dwb @ 1 Feb 2021, 18:20) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Accurascale have just announced a GWR Manor 4-6-0...
The interest for me will be how well they execute. Steam locos are significantly more difficult to make perform well, compared to twin bogie locos.

QUOTE (butler-henderson @ 1 Feb 2021, 20:01) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>... A Black Five would be a better choice in IMO as the Hornby 2002 tooling is getting a bit long in the tooth and not cutting it against more recent offerings...
Pay off for Hornby's recent strategy of make a move onto 'our territory' and we will compete very vigorously?
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
10,005 Posts
QUOTE The interest for me will be how well they execute.
Indeed. None of their powered models have yet made into the hands of modellers.

David
 
121 - 140 of 252 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top