[double00]

Does the various manufacturers have or show any respect after sales towards their customers?
I bought a Fleischmann 614 DMU diesel multiple unit from a Fleischmann registered retailer - right from the start, the unit emitted a loud grating sound while traversing over my layout. Fleischmann advised me to return the powered part of the unit to their address in the UK, cost of postage to be paid by me.
After four weeks, the unit was returned to my address in the same packaging I had used. No compliment slip or note was included to apologise for the inconvenience in having to send the unit back to Fleischmann or indeed as to cause of the noise emitted by the unit.
I soon found out as to why the absence of a note - the unit, to my horror was emitting the same irratating noise - in other words in plain english, nothing had been done and most probably not even checked over - the bubble wrap enclosing the unit, to me, looked very much like my own way of packing.
Prior to sending back the unit, Fleischmann stated that only one other model made a similar noise while in motion, and probably my unit would require some TLC and oiling of the gears. Certainly it looks like Fleischmann did not indulge my unit with lots of TLC and appropriate oil.
Fleischmann must have a strong hold of the H0/N gauges market and can afford to treat customers in such disgraceful manner.
I had a similar case with Bachmann over a guaranteed Class 158 making a not acceptable noise - the unit was returned in a identical manner, no repair being carried out.
Is this the way of manufacturers having no respect for their customers, to be accepted as normal for the 21st century. Slow

 

[double00]

Doug - the parcel was posted Special Delivery to Fleischmann 40 Brook Lane, Ferring, West Sussex BN12 5JD marked for the attention of a Mr John Hills in the sales office. Parcel signed at 12-40 on 20-10-2005.
However, what happened after receipt at Fleischmann, is unknown.
I did contact Fleischmann Sales by e-mail with no response todate.

 

[double00]

Doug - I am more than willing to accept an error did arise as we all have failings at some point. How many or how much correspondence is required before Fleischmann will acknowledge my pleas for help. Fleischmann, unless they do rectify this misunderstanding, is to lose my future custom - then again what is the loss of one customer to Fleischmann - can Fleischmann really afford to adopt this attitude in the long term.

 

[double00]

Denis David - to answer your question, yes I have contacted Fleischmann Web site in Germany and no doubt the excuse in this instance for not answering my contact is "language difference".
I also contacted the Fleischmann authorised retailer who sold me the 614 DMU, made arrangements with Fleischmann Sales on my behalf and the retailer quoted the contact address for me to send off the faulty 614 DMU.
On receiving back the 614 DMU supposed repair, I again contacted the retailer, who in turn stated it was Fleischmann who was at fault and they had bent backwards to assist me and therefore not answerable but only Fleischmann was.
Pointing out to both Fleischmann and the retailer - quoting the "Sale of Goods Act" that states in cases of being dissatisfied with goods or services, the buyer should contact the manufacturer or retailer or both with a written complaint.
Quoting the S of G act to both Fleischmann and the retailer has cut no ice.
Manufacturers and retailers know full well, that to take legal action against them is far to costly for the consumer to take action.

 

[double00]

Rail-Rider - what you say is one hundred percent accurate. The retailer in question is located approximately 300 miles from where I live in Scotland and this makes it extremely difficult to discus the issue to a satisfactory conclusion, and the fact contact by e-mail concludes in a wall of silence.
I have certainly pointed out to the retailer, of the Sale of Goods Act, and his responce again being the wall of silence. The retailer knows full well, the costs of taking legal action against him or the owner of the business is financially too prohibitve.
Fleischmann in the UK is shown under the name of EuroPartner Handler.
I had a similar dispute with gentleman in England who advertised his business of repairs to all types of model locomotives but specialised in Wrenn products. After charging me £56 to fit a new higher rated motor to a Wrenn DMU, a wait of nearly six months made it necessary to contact my local Trading Standards to recover both the DMU and money paid for repair. As it transpired no motor had been fitted to the Wrenn DMU. After numerous correspondence passing between myself and the T S, DMU was finally returned in the same conditioned when first sent to the repairer in Wrexham. The T S informed me the best method to recoupe my £56 from the repairer, would to take out a court judgement, this would not guarantee a return of my money if the findings were not in my favour. A court judgement was to cost around £150.
Believe me, I am most tempted to name the repairer and the retailer - however if any of the two gentleman decided to obtain the services of a good lawyer, it could turn out very costly to me in a deformation of character case.
The Fleischmann Class 614 DMU operates satisfactory - what is at state, does the noise it emits while traversing over the track, warrant a legal complaint?

 

[double00]

Eventually, I received an e-mail reply today from Fleischmann UK.

Dear Mr --------,
I did send you an e-mail about this loco on Wednesday, but it appears that you didn't receive it.
I understand from my repairman that he oiled and serviced the railcar and that it was running satisfactory.
If you are intending to visit the Warley Model railway exhibition at the NEC, Birmingham on December 3rd & 4th December, then please bring the railcar with you and we can see what can be done.
If not, then please send it back to me (or our authorised repair agents - Model- masters, 50, Clifton Road, Weston-super-Mare, Somerset BS23 1BW) and we will see if the fault can be rectified.
Regards,

John Hills,
Fleischmann UK Marketing.

Questions: why did the authorised repair agents fail first time to rectify the noise fault.

Where I live, to attend the Warley exhibition would incur me with a return railway fare, bus fares to the NEC, hotel accommodation, meals, entrance fee to the exhibition.
Total cost incurred would to my estimation, be cheaper to bin the original 614 DMU and buy another set at £216.
I presume the NEC is a large building, not counting the number of people attending the show at the time of my 614 DMU being tried out for volume of noise being generated - as compared to a small room in my house.
I may be wrong to feel that Fleischmann treatment of this complaint is most shabby.

 

[double00]

Hoping against the odds, that eventually the noise will subside to a level acceptable to the human ear.
Alas! after giving the 614 DMU its daily run, the three DMU indicator lights started to play up and have now ceased to function. Inspection of the 614 DMU underside, shows that the metal bright metal strip used to collect power from the two bogy axle wheels had dropped off "somewhere" along the layout. The strip was eventually found, and repositioned on the bogy. However, the fixing of the metal strip is, crude, a small hole at centre of metal strip fixes to the screw head that secures the bogy to the coach chassis - not being tight and secure, metal strip easily becomes detached.

 

[double00]

Afraid this noise persists in both directions.
Noise is best described as two pieces of rough metal surfaces being rubbed together and sound generated amplified. After several circuits of the 614 DMU, sound becomes so irritating to ones hearing, you are forced to drive the unit into the nearest siding on the layout.
I was informed, though I am not 100 percent in agreement, that noise is caused by Fleischmann fitting a "Pancake" type motor and its gear formation in the 614 DMU.
Fleischmann in the 80s brought out a diesel model BR Greyhound, this model I still run to this day - the motor fitted, was an identical motor to the present 614 DMU, a Pancake 12v dc, with all gears attached to the outside of the motor casing.
Fleischmann, nice try for giving reason to noise 614 DMU emits.

 

[double00]

Gary

what constitutes "silent".
I would think the engine should go pass a certain point silently and only hear the clicking of wheels when passing over the rail track joiners and points.
The authorised Fleischmann retailer says to send back the 614 DMU to them for checking and if found as faulty as maintained by me, then they will approach Fleischmann for repair or a new unit, but I must accept the interior lighting fitted at my request and paid for by me at the time of purchase would be lost.
Since I removed the roof from the body of the 614 DMU and tried to follow the instructions to take out motorise bogy from the chassis - I decided against this operation and reassembled back the unit.
To check all was correct, again tried the 614 DMU, and lo behold the 614 DMU was now traversing over the layout at a reduced noise level.
What is most important to me, is what degree of noise to accept, as to send back the 614 DMU to the authorised dealer or Fleischmann will no doubt be returned by them as no fault to be heard. It is a fact of life, no matter how hard you try a noise to heard, you can't make anyone hear the noise.
I feel through frustration and carriage cost, Fleischmann fully expect that I will give up trying.

 

[double00]

I admit that Hornby is not my favourite manufacturer, their models have little appeal to me. After sales and obtaining spare parts at most FOC, then Hornby is top of the range, something other manufacturers should copy and learn from Hornby.
Best after sales service manufacturer - Hornby.
Worse after sale service manufacturer - Fleischmann.

Best for sturdy and design manufacturer - Fleischman (dearest prices,
poor service).
Best for sturdy and design manufacturer - Heljan (moderate prices,good
service).
- Bachmann.
- Hornby. (cheapest prices, very
good service).

Best all round manufacturer - Hornby. (good value for what you pay and service).

 

[double00]

60134 - how I wished that my purchase of the Fleischmann 614 DMU had been from you. It would be nice to have your name and address for future purchases.
I did write the Trade Standards asking for advice, well I could have saved myself the bother, no word from them.
The old saying, "if you wait long enough, the customer will give up". At my age, I will just do that, not worth the hassle and to Fleischmann, well done.

 

[double00]

Today, out of the blue, I received an e-mail from Fleischmann UK, and from its content, Fleischmann Germany had been in contact - in short, Mr Hills asks that the 614 DMU in dispute be returned to them before the Warley exhibition at the NEC in Birmingham, to enable them to replace the 614 DMU in question.
The support of all the members of this Forum, who all give me valuable help and encouragement - to everyone, my sincere thanks.

 

[double00]

Can I again ask the members of this Forum a "helping hand"?
If it is permissible to post a "Cry of Help" - I have chosen in the past and at random dealt with people who profess to be qualified persons in servicing and repairing all gauges of locomotives in both steam and diesel types - and up till now, my experiences have been anything but satisfactory.
Members, please if you have had dealings with a reliable and satisfactory repair person, perhaps you will share with me the repairer's name and address and I can assure everyone this will be most appreciated.
Thank you, double00.

 

[double00]

Mr Hills of Fleischmann UK, today sent me an e-mail to inform me that the 614 DMU was examined by a technician from Fleischmann Germany, who was in attendance at the Warley exhibition.
The technician stated the 614 DMU was suffering from nothing more than over oiling to the motor, and after a thorough clean up was tested on the Fleischmann display at the exhibition. The 614 DMU was found by the technician and Mr Hills to be running perfect with no sound emitted.
The original 614 DMU is now being returned to me with no question of any replacement being made.

Well Fleischmann, you win, with my health being poor, find to pursue any further too much a hassle.

 

[double00]

Well Fleischmann has contacted me again to inform me that the 614DMU should be sent to Germany for a further examination and that replacement was no longer on the cards.
It appears that Fleischmann are prepared to enter examinations of their faulty products or made to be seen in doing so.
My 614 DMU was sent to Fleischmann yet again on the promise it would be replaced - and again I received back with the fault of complaint being still well eminent, plus as a bonus, the interior lights no longer function.
Let future buyers of Fleischmann products - beware, that most probably you will be left with a white elephant, or you could use faulty model as a door stop.

Well this morning, I had a very pleasant surprise, in the post was a new replacement Fleischmann 614 DMU.
What can I say but thank you Fleischmann for reconsidering my pleas for replacing the faulty 614 DMU - my faith in Fleischmann in this instance has been certainly restored and appreciated.

 

[double00]

Fleischmann affair in replacing my faulty 614 DMU, has been amicably resolved much to Fleischmann and Mr John Hills credit.
The new replacement Fleischmann 614 DMU has been received and indeed runs very efficiently over my layout - a piece of excellent model engineering and worth the asking price. In addition to the replacement, Fleischmann have also reimbursed in full, all costs of postage incurred by me.
I can only now say "thank you Fleischmann, you now have restored my faith in your company and products".

 

[double00]

CeeDeei, without being long winded, you could be right in what you say.
In an e-mail to Fleischmann, I did slip by mentioning, that I contributed frequently to model railway forums.