[Gary]

The Hornby loco photo is not in the correct proportion so the model loco looks taller than it really is which does not help when looking at images of the original where it looks as if the photo might be in proportion.

Notwithstanding this lets remind everybody that this model is based on the original Triang mould so its a bit pointless criticising the model as a model as Hornby are not going to do anything about it and the collector set will very quickly sell out regardless of what the rivet counters think!

Let us just be greatful that Hornby are even considering subjects like this with their vintage moulds.

If we start knit picking then Hornby will begin to wonder if it is worth it!

What chance an EM2 or even a Transcontinntal double ended diesel complete with whiskers and all with modern type motors and paint finish.

A retro range would sell very well IMHO!

Happy modelling
Gary

 

[Gary]

QUOTE Predictibly, as night follows day up gallops Gary on his white stallion to rescue the princess Hornby from the big bad forum members who dare criticise.

All you need to do is to look at the axel centre to running plate distances - angles of photo ect are irrelevant.

The fact is Hornby have no choice in the matter as to lower the body thus raising the centres would mean the motor would not fit in the body. And as the first DCC ready model of its type it is useful to have some space under the boiler for a Hornby decoder as there is little else that will fit! And in any case any alterations to existing moulds and chassis would increase the costs considerably which for a limited edition run of 2000 (or whatever) would make such a model totally unviable.

One really big issue with pre-grouping stuff is the very tiny boilers and the shape of the boilers that locos had and the nature of the tender designs for this period makes tender drive a big no no. Thats what Simon Kohler said anyway and he should know!

There is no point in mentioning The Rocket as the small motor used would be unreliable when used in a "normal" pre grouping loco with a normal rake of coaches.

As for big bad forum members and Gary riding to the rescue I am simply providing some balance. Those big bad forum members, whether out of choice or ignorance, don't appear to!

The one thing that might concern new modellers is the likely limited pulling power (3 to 4 coaches max on the flat) and this is a practical fact that the big bad forum members would be better highlighting if they are genuinely concerned for new modellers.

QUOTE Hornby RTR is not good enough for me - that's why I model things from across the water.

AFAIK Hornby are big boys & should be able to take reasonable critisism without having to be defended.

Is the criticism reasonable?

Probably yes however now that we are aware of the facts it helps us to understand the issues a little better.

Happy modelling
Gary

 

[Gary]

QUOTE For starters if anyone quotes me, please give me the courtesy I give others by leaving my name in the quote.

How do you do that?

Not many members are aware that this feature exists.

QUOTE I agree with dbClass on the issue of Hornby being up front that this is a heritage/reissue range and what that consists of. I was about to order Lord of the Isles from Hattons earlier this year. I thought it looked great in the catalogue and assumed it was a new release from all the hoo hah about it.

QUOTE I agree, standards were very different 45 years ago - the point I (& others) have been making is that it should have been more clearly marked as a heritage model on the box - whilst most of us here know exactly what, here & when it came from not everyone does - in fact (& this is no disrespect to the member) one of our number has asked what an X04 motor looks like - just the example I was trying to emphasise. In spite of the impression some people seem to have got I fully support Hornby re-issuing the older stuff, provided that they are marketed as heritage or whatever. To be honest, I'm looking forward to seeing the battle space range again - oh to have the thing with the spike & the chance to really destroy the exploding boxcar again.

If you check out the 2007 catalogue Hornby make it very clear what the provenance of the model is and state that the only changes that they have made to the original model are to the chassis and motor to bring that up to modern standards (ie not Super 4 Track standards). They even mention "Tri-ang" in the catalogue in connection with the coaches which first appeared in 1963 and last appeared in 1973!

No doubt similar info will appear on the packaging.

And as Richard says, there are no rivets to count!

And whilst they may have upgraded the chassis I trust that it will run on Super 4 Track!

Happy modelling
Gary

PS in terms of "Heritage" marking virtually all model locomotives fall into this catagory! It would cause as much confusion as "DCC Ready", etc.

Now if Hornby put the word "Tri-ang" on the box...

And Hornby do own the "Hornby Dublo" trademarks (not "Tri-ang" unfortuneately).

 

[Gary]

To be honest Brian the real issue is that you have a commercial interest in continental models and therefore we should be asking ourselves whether your comments, when made, are without prejudice.

Would that be a fair question?

A different and possibly more positive approach would be to come up with Euro alternatives to Hornby models and see if our hearts and minds are stirred that way. Unfortuneately you know that it is very probably unlikely but at least you will have tried!

Happy modelling
Gary

PS the very good news is that I have got permission from the Mrs to go ahead and purchase this set. Its one that would be very hard to hide!

 

[Gary]

Ravenser said:-
QUOTE I'm a bit shocked MRF ran to 10 pages on the Hornby 66 - a marginal rerelease of an aging model originated by someone else (as it happens a Continental manufacturer) , which has been totally outclassed by a modern generation model from Bachmann. Meanwhile Bachmann's brand new 47 - representing the most common BR mainline diesel , with a 45 year service life - attracted just 10 posts in 2 threads. It will be very interesting to see how many pages we get on the brand new state of the art Hornby 56 when that appears in a few weeks

And here we go again - a collectors limited edition rerun of a model from more than half a lifetime ago , representing a singleton pregrouping loco has run to 3 pages of discussion. Total MRF discussion of Hornby's state of the art rebuilt Royal Scot , released a few weeks back , is under 20 posts. The Hornby Maunsell coaches have been out a week , and we are busy discussing release of some 45 year old toy "representations" of CR coaches in preference

Could it be that the new releases are so good that it is very hard to have a discussion about them as there is actaully very little to say apart from "nice job!" and "keep up the good work Hornby/Bachmann".

I do know that other forums go on for pages and pages about a single new release but ultimately you get a very narrow discussion about one minor issue of detail such as a cab wiper or a rivet being in the wrong position that seems to go on for ever! Do you not find this a bit of a monotonous read?

Now releases with old tooling are an interesting subject for discussion and it is much easier to have a debate in the grand style that makes for an good read with a lot of diverse views and comments and member participation.

The discussion is not so much about the model as about the principals behind the rerelease. Now Bachmann don't actually have a back catalogue of old models to rerelease and so any discussion will ineviteably involve Hornby.

Happy modelling
Gary

 

[Gary]

QUOTE Simon Kohler once remarked that there was a proportionately higher number of modellers north of the border- how about backing this up with a decent Scottish loco. I don't hold with the limited prototype theory- if its a nice loco like a Caley Dunalastair or a Reid Glen- it will make its own market and stimulate its own demand. (Triang did it 45 years ago with the Caley single after all!)

History records that the original Caley single was a relatively slow seller with the original 11300 produced taking 4 years to leave the factory shelves at Margate. A further 5100 were produced in 1971 and it took until 1976 to clear stock from shop shelves. You have to remember that in 1963 the prototype had only been out of service for just 40 years or so. That is todays equivalent of 1967 and the last BR steam trains.

To put this into context the original 1960 Britannia had 112000 sales over 9 years. 110,000 BR 2-6-4 tanks were sold over 11 years. 100,000 Blue Puilmans in blue were sold over 8 years and 120000 whiskered double ended diesels were sold over 8 years. Al the figures are in Pat Hammonds Triang Hornby books.

So a typical Triang model had sales of 10000 to 15000 a year on average. The Caley averaged 1600 a year.

We cannot argue that the Caley model was basic in design as they all were at that time!

The historical experience does not therefore bode well for a purely Scottish model.

If Hornby were to produce a purely Scottish loco then surely a Clan would be the perfect trial subject?

I wonder if the proportion of kit and scratch builders in Scotland is also higher than the national average?

And if there are any kits of Scottish models how well do these sell?

Happy modelling
Gary

PS In saying all this Bachmann are producing a purely Irish diesel on a commision basis with 12 models of 500 each in various liveries so maybe it will take an entrepreneur in Scotland who is prepared to take a financial gamble to approach Bachmann....

...or even Paddy Murphy of Dublin himself on behalf of the Scots!

Last time I looked Ireland had a smaller population than Scotland.

 

[Gary]

QUOTE What gets me is that in Germany you get all sorts of early 1900's locos in various liveries whereas we get very little of that.

Hornby's own published thinking is that the German model railway market is 6 times larger than the British model railway market. Do you think that there would be early 1900 German locos if they were not viable?

Also Marklin history goes back 120 years so they have an early back catalogue and research to utilise. Hornby and Bachmann do not.

Its not just about locos. Its about coaches, wagons and infrastructure and as you can see it suddenly becomes very expensive to launch a product range for a whole early period for which Hornby surveys time after time suggest there would be little British public interest (according to SK in discussion).

Given a fixed pot of money it would be better invested in a modern British catenary system and D & E electric locos where there would be far more interest shown by the British public. What may rankle Hornby slightly is that in investing in a catenary system there would be a rub off effect and Bachmann would benefit as Bachmann as well as Hornby could then produce electric D & E stuff to run under a Hornby catenary set up. This may be the one factor why we don't get one! Its a pity Hornby and Bachmann can't get together on this and jointly create a system. Could somebody organise a spot of head banging?

Happy modelling
Gary

 

[Gary]

QUOTE What gets me is that with very few exception there is really nothing available either ready to run or in kit form. i would love a penydarren or a puffing billy. to me they have a million times more appeal than a class 47.

If kit builders believe it is a hopeless case it is very unfair to have a pop at Hornby or Bachmann for whom an investment would mean £100,000's. I don't buy the argument that if you build the models the market will snap them up. They won't and there is no futire in producing puffing billy and the like.

Marklin have the archives to produce such models which brings costs right down. There is absolutely nothing to stop them updating old tools if they believe there is a fast buck in it for them. You have also have to remember that German locos pretty much all look the same across the whole of Germany with a single operator so appeal is very wide which is definitely is not the case for British locos with all the different reqions of the UK having their own seperate identity. So in addition to the UK market being 16% the size of Germany there are also 4 or 5 strong regional identities further fragmenting the UK market and on this basis Hornby and Bachmann are miracle workers!!!

And Marklin need a fast buck else they are down the pan as would any company be, small or large, who introduces loss making items that do not sell in the numbers required. Hornby and Bachmann are not charities as some here seem to believe!

Maybe Heljan or ViTrains have a charitable nature and are your best hope for such models?

And ultimately do box shifters want slow selling lines on their shelves?

How would the box shifters react if Hornby came up with the idea of puffing billy?

Believe me there would be guffaws of laughter!!!

However pedro you are convinced! We have not had a good poll for a long time so why don't you organise one?

Have a simple question like would you be interested in Hornby or Bachmann giving development priority to puffing billy and similar locos from the 1850-1900 period? Yes or no.

Happy modelling
Gary