[neil_s_wood]

QUOTE I'm secretly hoping that they are actually Lenz Gold decoders with a big Hornby logo on top and sold for half the price of the normal Lenz... That would be great.

Here's hoping that they fit these in their locos instead of the dodgy ones that we thought they would use.

 

[neil_s_wood]

QUOTE (dwb @ 19 Jan 2007, 06:04) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>>Indeed 'Top of the Range' in their usually very carefully worded parlance could be taken as meaning top of their own range

The positive interpretation is "Digital enthusiast - someone who would buy a Lenz gold, ESU LokPilot, Zimo MX63". Now if they think they can top those for features, then bring it on....

David
In order to acheive this they have a couple of months to go from the bottom of the DCC world to the top. I'm not holding my breath.

QUOTE Bear in mind Bachmann have there 21-pin DCC socket in the sound 66 (and presume in the 20), so they must have something up there sleave in terms of a decoder to fit into it that has plenty of features. Bachmann have adopted this because it is fast becoming standard in DCC worldwide. Brawa and Trix have had 21 pin sockets in all their new locos for the last year and there is speculation that the 21 pin decoder will soon become NMRA standard.

 

[neil_s_wood]

True the US doesn't seem to have adopted the 21 pin yet. But they may well have to. Precision Craft use German ESU decoders and if thats the way it goes in Europe then they will probably follow suit.

If the yanks don't keep up with the latest DCC technology they may well end up in the unfortunate position that the UK is currently in.

 

[neil_s_wood]

QUOTE If Hornby fit their top of the range "DCC Fitted" locomotives with such a beast, I would happy to buy it and pay a bit extra just so that I don't have to take the loco apart to fit it. That would be an ideal solution.

 

[neil_s_wood]

QUOTE ESU are taken by Bachmann

In what way? ESU make decoders which are used in Maerklin, Trix, Fleischmann, Roco, Precision Craft, Lilliput and Bachmann. So there is no affinity to any one single company.

QUOTE Hornby isn't big by the standards of Ford, Microsoft or Vodaphone but its very big compared to the likes of Lenz, ESU or NCE, and the little fish don't want to see the pike get into their pond

They make very different products. Hornby make budget toy trains. ESU, Lenz make electronics. While Hornby may produce budget DCC systems this is not the area catered for by Lenz or ESU who do quality middle and top end products. They are competing in different areas. Remember Hornby is only big or known in the UK and to a limited extent in it's former colonies.

QUOTE I still think the Maerklin and Trix DCC controllers bear an uncanny resemblance to the ECoS.

You got that right David. They both have the Ethernet feature too. ESU assisted in the design of both systems hence why ESU recommends so many Maerklin DCC accessories for use with the Ecos. The system was designed for use primarily with these. The only difference I have seen between the Trix Central station and the Ecos is the number of functions. The CS only has 12 as this is the NMRA specified amount where as the Ecos has 20.

QUOTE If the Hornby group intend to fit standard decoders and offer others as accessories, it will becomes a potential threat to the established DCC manufacturers' market share.
I don't think the existing DCC manufacturers need to worry. The only people who will accept Hornby decoders are those who have been converted from DC to Hornby DCC with the release of the select. Anyone more seriously into DCC and who was using it prior to Hornbys DCC adventure will be more likely to use Lenz, ESU or Digitrax decoders as they will be aware of the differences.

QUOTE Lots of people would prefer not to have to take their locos apart and I don't just mean the trainset market.

Absolutely

QUOTE I'll guarantee things will have moved on significantly in a couple of years time.
They will but while Hornby are catching up the market leaders Lenz, ESU, Zimo and Viessmann will be making new advances and rasing the hurdles higher.

Hornby has quite a bit of catching up to do before they catch up with the European manufacturers, if they ever do, and to be honest I don't think the UK is prepared to pay the price for the full monty. Hornby are only going to produce a system that they think the UK internal market will sustain and as has been discussed here before UK modellers aren't prepared to pay European prices so they wont get European standard products. I'd like to think that there is a section of the UK modelling market who is prepared to pay for a better quality product but I keep hearing otherwise.

 

[neil_s_wood]

QUOTE One of the new locos released here in Australia namely the Eureka Models AD 60 Garratt which has a ound decoder inside works quite well on DC with only some sounds not available until the loco is on a DCC layout.

This uses a QSI decoder which is specifically designed for use on DC and DCC and to provide sound on both.

QUOTE What I am saying is that I don't think the niche digital manufacturers are capable of producing in the quantities and at prices that the European train set manufacturers require

ESU currently do, they supply sound and regular decoders for Maerklin/Trix, Fleischmann, Roco Lilliout, Bachmann and Precision craft. Maerklin alone would sell more trains than Hornby.

QUOTE I'm sure they will have a tough job, but I remember all the discussion on German and Austrian manufacturers pricing themselves out of business.
Haven't we seen quite a few companies going bancrupt or near bancrupt in the last year?
There seems to be an opening for a canny operator there?

Maerklin and Roco have seriously restructured and come back from that. This was a process that Hornby had to go through too. The product made by Hornby and the German manufacturers is very different. Hornby would be competing against the budget end of the market. Don't forget the strong loyalty factor that Maerklin has in Germany too.

QUOTE Can I just ask why the rest of Europe gets DCC Ready but why Hornby were seeking to impose DCC Fitted here? Is it because they thought they were big enough to force the change!

Could be or just that they think you know nothing about DCC and that they'd get away with it.

QUOTE and I don't really see N gauge as ripe for DCC yet in the way HO and OO are.

Have a look at the MiniTrix catalogue. There's quite a few including digital sound in N. There are several N MiniTrix digital starter sets.

QUOTE This explains the persistance of obsolete 3 rail AC , rejected everywhere else decades ago

No no no not again please!

QUOTE What about the Lenz strategy for the USA? They seem to be shipping plenty over there at prices much lower than in the European markets. Lenz seems to be the decoder of choice for many an American modeller.
This seems to have been missed by many. As Lenz are shipping loads of decoders to the USA they really couldn't give a monkeys about the UK market.

Hornby are in with a chance in France, Spain and Italy but they have none in Germany. As I said before the only thing they have to sell to the Germans is their live steam locos.

 

[neil_s_wood]

QUOTE But I do agree - Lenz really need to do something about their systems , and above all the obsolete Compact. What really strikes me is that they've already developed an excellent replacement for the Compact - but they've given it to Roco to sell in trainsets, rather than sell it themselves

If they don't announce a replacement for the Compact at this Nuremburg Fair , or the very latest at the next, then I think you may be right about them opting out.

I was just rummaging round the ESU sight looking for something when I came across this little nugget in connection with litigation by QSI against ESU. QSI seems to use litigation as their main defence against all rivals and in this instance they are probably unhappy about getting the bump from BLI/PCM in favour of ESU.

The item said;

ESU LLC's products are based on the well-known LokSound technology. LokSound is used by the largest model railroad manufacturers worldwide and is the world market leader for realistic sound in models.
LokSound was the first company introducing a flash-based sound decoder enabling the user to create their own, custom-made sounds. Further, ESU's decoder technology provides the user not only with prototypical sound, but also excellent motor control including back emf.
Since 1999, all major European model train manufacturers including Märklin, Trix, Roco, Fleischmann, Mehano, Brawa, Liliput, Bachmann Uk, Electrotren, Hübner, Kiss, KM-1 and many others successfully use our products. LokSound technology is carefully designed to respect others patents and IP.
ESU LLC is proud to promote and sell these famous products in the US market so the American model railroader can benefit from ESU's 10 years of experience making sound decoders and serving model train companies with excellently engineered, reliable products.

There's only one European train manufacturer I can see missing from that list. If all the European majors, other than Hornby, are using ESU decoders then it may explain why Lenz have gone on to do other things. Maybe ESU have pushed Lenz out of the market? Hornby would be well advised to adopt ESU sound, should they choose to go that way, rather than "have a go" like they have done so far. If ESU are supplying to all the above listed manufacturers then they must easily be the largest producer of pre installed decoders?

 

[neil_s_wood]

QUOTE On the attitude of the Railway Mags,so far I can't see an editorial blast at Hornby, as if they are being protected for being the Holy Grail, being the only British Model Railway Company. Am I wrong in thinking this? I don't think anyone who either runs a British outline magazine or a forum which focuses on British outline can dare alienate Hornby as they are responsible for such a large chunk of the UK market. Magazines especially rely on advertising and to lose Hornby's adverts would cost a magazine dearly hence the reluctance to tackle Hornby head on and openly criticise them. The only true feedback they will get is through chat on forums like this or face to face at trade shows. I guess that people with an economic interest don't want to take the chance that negative feedback will p**s them off.

To be fair though the impression I get is that Hornby do seem to be very willing to listen to and act on feedback from customers. The release of this saphire decoder is in direct response to the complaints about the limitations of the previous decoder. They have acted quite quickly on this too.

 

[neil_s_wood]

QUOTE (rb277170 @ 31 Jan 2007, 08:05) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>A Railway Modeller in depth review. Does such a thing exist?

Russell
No they are primarily there in order to alert you to the fact that something exists.