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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi , in late 2019 my Father passed away and I inherited a near complete ( I think) N gauge model railway which he had been constructing for the previous 6 years , it is (or will be) computer controlled and comes with traincontroller gold and 4 boards known as signalist SC1's plus another board called a DP8 .I should perhaps explain that previous to inheriting the layout my experience with model rail was almost zero so I joined this site and have spent many months learning by browsing the various sub forums and I think that I am slowly getting there , I have now come to something I can't get my head around ie the signals , there are 8 Green/Red colour light signals already placed on the layout plus 4 Dapol semaphore signals still sealed in their packs , I think the colour lights as fitted are ok but I have absolutely no idea as to where the semaphores were meant to go , my father was a nightmare for not recording either his thoughts or his actions as he reckoned he could keep everything in his head but of course all that info is now gone , I have taken a traincontroller track screenshot and marked on it the 8 colour lights in green and red with the "LC" indicating the position of a level crossing , can someone please advise where the semaphores should go please ? .
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Well you main line are twin track, however there are some single track junctions, now I suspect your Dapol signals are a single semaphore and they come in two colours.
Red is a home whilst the yellow ones are distants, that is to say the home is the actual signal and the distant tells the driver what the Home will be, So you have a track third from the left, at the top this would have a Home (red)
At the bottom it goes into two tracks so that would have a double signal into the tracks at the bottom and there would be either two home signal signals or again a double.

As a layout everything is on the inside track which will annoy you, at least a pair of loops would help, anyway there are a number of places to use up the Dapols.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Hi and thanks for your thoughts , Dad did sometimes talk about the layout when I visited him and I remember ( althoughit's a bit vague) once asking him how trains on the 2 main loops and the branch line which has a station could get to any part of the layout , he said that the trains on the outer loop would be confined to that loop only but trains on the inner loop would be able to use the branch line via the points just before the scissors crossing and rejoin the inner loop just before inner loop N , the branch line will only run a single car class 122 to the not shown 3rd platform which is accesed via 202 industrial N and I just assumed that he knew what he was doing but I must admit that I do now wonder asa there seems to be no need for the Scissors , he may have changed his mind and altered the track plan but decided to leave the scissors in place .
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I omitted making a reply as to what type of Semaphores , they are single arm homes .
 

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I have to say that the plan is not very play worthy, a bit technical but note the outer loop runs clockwise and the inner loop counter clockwise and it does not look great, there are things you can do to improve the storage and to me that outer loop is wasted with one train, I wonder how is the railway built, on boards, on the floor? the scope you have for adjustments but anyway I would see if you can add an outer loop at either side so that will hold 3 trains instead of 1
The 206 siding entry at the top could run straight on as well and meet 114 branch platform again adding a useful storage loop
The double cross over is not in a good place. It should be to the left of Branchline entry 5 and should be a trailing cross over as the railways do not like leading cross overs, Then a cross over at the top thus a train on the outer loop can pass inside then come back to the outer loop, this opens up a huge number of options.

The signals can go either as entry to the inner loops or exit from them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Hi , my dad was'nt after playworthiness but more of a Diorama of things he remembered from his childhood , he did'nt want to play trains but rather have something he could turn on and it would run itself , prototypicality was also not a large concern as he just wanted something that average observer could easily mistake for something that once existed but almost definately did not .The board was professionally made and measures 5 foot X 3 foot 3 inches which was as large as he could go in a one bed flat it stands on 4 corner legs and is made of high quality ply for the board and some sort of Pine for the frame and legs , he'd have liked larger but he only had what he had .There is no space or scope to enlarge it and I will not alter it as i'd regard that as disrespect to my dad .He told me the stories about the various scenes such as a metalworking shop that stood within railway sidings , he worked there on Saturdays and Sunday mornings as it was a commercial concern and not owned by BR , he worked there from the age of 8 till he was 12 and by the time he was 10 he could turn out 5 metal dustbins in a day doing all the work himself .He was a complicated man and all those who knew him reckoned he was totally unique , there is storage although it consists only of the sidings and those are restricted to only 0-6-0 's , the engine shed does have two 0-6-2 tanks associated with it but they also restricted to the 2 lines that enter the engine shed , the class 122 will have 2 options but will only operate between the branch station and the mainline stations 3 rd platform as a shuttle service between the 2 and it and all other passenger stock is barred from entering the sidings , the year is 1963 just before the Beeching axe .
 

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OK well I respect your view and in turn wanting to honour your dad so good luck with the project, like to see photos of it though.

Kris
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thanks Chris , I have looked at your suggestions and from a model railroaders aspect I have to agree but my mum and my brother are quite insistent that I should not alter anything unless absolutely neccessary to enable trains to run .My parents parted nearly 20 years ago but mum has remained quite loyal to him and I feel I must do too so i'm going to leave things as they are and as I said dad never intended it to be a layout where you would play with model trains .He liked visual things and sounds as well and I know that his boyhood days were still burning strong in him till the day he died .I have one of dads USB sticks with some layout pics on it, i'm not sure how long ago he took these as they are lacking many of the fine details that or on it now but it does give a very idea of what it is , if you're won
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Looks really good.

David
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Looks really good.

David
Thank you David , how it looked was my dads main concern ,I know why he did it (although he never actually said it to me )but I know from how he talked about his younger years that he was very nostalgic for those times ,although in later life he became very Green and concerned about the enviroment and that the things he fondly remembered such as steam power the old Gasworks sites etc etc had to go for our species to have a chance , he became quite active devoting over half of quite a large garden considering the flat that went with it and I also inherited was quite small to endangered native wildflowers along with native Amphibians and Reptiles ( slow worms and common Lizards ) all in the almost the exact dead centre of town .I'm quite busy with work things at the moment but at the weekend i'll take a few pics of how the layout looks now and post them up , oh and btw mum has agreed that if I can move the scissors as suggested by Kris and it will make the layout run better without moving anything more than just a tad then she would approve , I'm not sure if it's possible yet but it may just be doable given the very restricted space , i'll need to do some research into the geometry and sizes of N gauge code 55 points
 

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Hi again, makes more sense when the scenery and such is in place to see the concept, looks very well as an overall impression and certainly there is much that is packed in there, my father left me a large model railway but the house went to my sister so it had to come down, it was 8.5 metres by 4 metres in OO so my space already built by then was 5.2m by 4.0m again OO, he used to pressurise me by asking what I would do with it, as I said to him
1. Keep the best locos and stock
2. Sell some of his and sell some of mine
3. Recycle the funds into recent new stock
with a total (and I may have been wrong) of 489 locos I effectively sold about 120 and bought about 40 and same with rolling stock as I moved the de facto date from circa 1956 to 1962 and so reflected the change in stock during this period. Quite a few locos were worn out and so they got replaced by new ones such as my Austerity fleet. So I understand how difficult it is for you to make changes however I am still making use of much track especially points he had in use.
Anyway nice to see the photos.
kris
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
489 !!! Locos , well that's just a few more than this layout will be seeing as Dad planned for it to have just 9.I have after being in touch with one of Dads friends found out a little bit more about what he planned regarding train or Loco movements and routes and have decided to leave the track as it is although I did determine that your suggested leftwards relocation of the scissors would just about be possible but would add nothing to to allow the only thing that really worried me in that his friend said that the 2 Locos that normally just hang around the ash tower and Loco shed are intended to make occasional forays to the Coaling tower and then return to the engine shed/ash tower but I could'nt see how they could do it without running onto the branchline and going as far as the branchline station against the flow of traffic and then reversing onto the sidings track , his friend said that would have been allowed in liaison with the signal man and the staff at the branchline station and may have involved the use of a token or hand signals .There will be some shunting ( 08 and Jinty)
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of coal wagons ( very limited) within the sidings associated with the coal merchants as there are 2 electromagnetic uncouplers on 2 of those tracks and lastly the passender train with the red and cream carriges will stay permanently on the outer loop as it's Loco (9F) behaves flawlessly there but occasionally uncouples if used on the inner loop .i'm adding 3 more pics and again asking now that your understanding of the layout is better where would you place the Semaphores ?.
 

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I presume these semaphores have a single red arm?
If that's the case then they will control entry to the next section where there is no choice of route - ie they are not controlling passage over a diverging point. One obvious place to put a single semaphore is where the branch line joins the main line at the top of the layout. It would control the entry of trains on the branch line to the main line.

The other junction of the branch line with the main line at the bottom of the layout is 'interesting'.
The simplest way to run this junction is from main line to branch line only because going from the branch line to the main line requires the train to run in the 'wrong' direction on the main line until it reaches the scissors almost a complete lap later. So assuming trains never run from the branch line to the main line at that point, you could use a single arm semaphore to control entry from the branch line to the inner most platform of the main station.

The photos show a complete, well executed model railway. There are many different scenes and the railway joins them together but given the constraints of the space, the joining is doing what it can in the space available. Hence the scissors crossover is to the right of where it would have been on the real thing.

I can understand why your dad worked in the way he did. My shelf layout is a collection of memories which start with recent holidays in Germany and that has prompted other things, like today's addition of some road racing cyclists to remind me of friends at work who go for a 50k ride at lunchtimes.

David
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I presume these semaphores have a single red arm?
If that's the case then they will control entry to the next section where there is no choice of route - ie they are not controlling passage over a diverging point. One obvious place to put a single semaphore is where the branch line joins the main line at the top of the layout. It would control the entry of trains on the branch line to the main line.

The other junction of the branch line with the main line at the bottom of the layout is 'interesting'.
The simplest way to run this junction is from main line to branch line only because going from the branch line to the main line requires the train to run in the 'wrong' direction on the main line until it reaches the scissors almost a complete lap later. So assuming trains never run from the branch line to the main line at that point, you could use a single arm semaphore to control entry from the branch line to the inner most platform of the main station.

The photos show a complete, well executed model railway. There are many different scenes and the railway joins them together but given the constraints of the space, the joining is doing what it can in the space available. Hence the scissors crossover is to the right of where it would have been on the real thing.

I can understand why your dad worked in the way he did. My shelf layout is a collection of memories which start with recent holidays in Germany and that has prompted other things, like today's addition of some road racing cyclists to remind me of friends at work who go for a 50k ride at lunchtimes.

David
Yes David they all have a single Red arm ,3 are still boxed but One has been unpacked .This part of your reply (
The other junction of the branch line with the main line at the bottom of the layout is 'interesting'.
The simplest way to run this junction is from main line to branch line only because going from the branch line to the main line requires the train to run in the 'wrong' direction on the main line until it reaches the scissors almost a complete lap later. So assuming trains never run from the branch line to the main line at that point, you could use a single arm semaphore to control entry from the branch line to the inner most platform of the main station.)has my complete agreement and will be the way I will go , i'll keep the 2 extra Semaphores as spares and maybe just maybe they will get used in a future ( far future not near) extension board to the layout .I thank everyone for their comments and help and it pleases me much that I have found a solution that does not involve me altering any of my Fathers work , I now face the daunting task of configuring Traincontroller which even though I work in IT seems to be very complicated but do still have my Dads place on their forum and will hopefully get any extra help I need there .
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Yes David they all have a single Red arm ,3 are still boxed but One has been unpacked .This part of your reply (
The other junction of the branch line with the main line at the bottom of the layout is 'interesting'.
The simplest way to run this junction is from main line to branch line only because going from the branch line to the main line requires the train to run in the 'wrong' direction on the main line until it reaches the scissors almost a complete lap later. So assuming trains never run from the branch line to the main line at that point, you could use a single arm semaphore to control entry from the branch line to the inner most platform of the main station.)has my complete agreement and will be the way I will go , i'll keep the 2 extra Semaphores as spares and maybe just maybe they will get used in a future ( far future not near) extension board to the layout .I thank everyone for their comments and help and it pleases me much that I have found a solution that does not involve me altering any of my Fathers work , I now face the daunting task of configuring Traincontroller which even though I work in IT seems to be very complicated but do still have my Dads place on their forum and will hopefully get any extra help I need there .
 
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