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Norm's Loft Layout

103851 Views 755 Replies 61 Participants Last post by  Norman Byrne
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Hi All,

Well here goes my first post on my WIP Loft OO guage model railway.

Having been away from the hobby for longer than I would care to mention, but its well into double figures, I decided a year or two ago, to sort out the loft & try to find all the boxes which have not seen the light of day since we moved to West Sussex over 13 years ago, & have another go at a hobby which I have loved since childhood in the 60's.

Well that took care of most of the 1st year ! Sorting the loft, clearing it sufficiently to be able to move, installing some velux rooflights & having the water tanks moved, to avoid them being a central island; then insulating & lining the loft with plastic sheeting & hardboard - were a few occassions I have to say when I thought am I sure I want to be doing this LOL !

Anyway in parallel to the "muck & bullets" prep. works in the loft, many an evening was spent scribbling possible plans, scouring the railway modelling press (* forgot to say I had built up a collection of about ten years worth of Railway Modeller still in the plastic wrappers, which were also found in the loft - lots of copies still to open / read !) & starting to visit a few local railway exhibitions / shows, including Worthing, Brighton & Chichester,to both get ideas & also try to play catch up on how the world of model railways had moved on during my "gap decade" - what on earth is this DCC thing; how can they have trains double headed, & numerous trains on the same track !!!!! What a learning curve I still have to climb.

Well eventually got to the stage that baseboards could be assembed / built, & plumbed for the more traditional 6mm marine ply solid deck, on the basis I could build upwards from that, with a timber softwood framework below. The loft space being rectangular about 18 feet x 6ft 6 based on a baseboard bottom level about 2ft 6 / stool / chair height off the ground, was what I had to paly with - seem like a lot to me !!! Big problem obviously being tight curves at each end, as I did want to be able to "watch the trains go round" to some extent at least - you have to relax sometime eh ?

Well having now built the baseboards (* hopefully see pics below), I then after much grey matter scratching opted for DC (* I can hear the groans now !!!), as I was keen to be able to run my old engines which I have accumulated over the last 40 years or so; also its what I thought I might remember (eventually). I also opted for Peco code 100 track & electrofrog points. As in the dim & distant past always had better running over that type of point.

So thats enough of the the history lesson, but just wanted to set the scene. I have now progressed quite a bit of track laying, which I have done on a cork base, generally one layer over the complete ply baseboards & then a second layer under the tracks themselves. Have added a few inclines to link some upper level sections, & also some hidden loops behind some demountable retaining walls, the current finish on which needs a lot of development - but thats on the to do list, or should that be to do "roll" !

Have hopefully attached a couple of overall pics of the loft as it currently stands, & look forward to using the knowledge of others & learning my way back into this great hobby, with the assistance of other members on this forum. Happy railway modelling & Cheers for now,

Norm

PS. Will try to add some pics a little later - after lesson 2 LOL !
PPS . Have added a few pics in an album, but cannot seem to get them on here - must try harder LOL !

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Hi Norm The Bristol show was very busy and quite noisy so I'm not sure which company said they did commissions but I think it was Torri Laser at www.torrilaser.com the other company was JSModels at www.jsmodels.co.uk I think both companies do commissions though they will be expensive . The latter JS did the warehouses I mentioned take a look, looking cost nothing :) . Your best option is scratch build and as John has suggested Plastruct do a range of profiles that may well be useful and going down that route will allow for some experimentation . This is what I will probably do myself as I intend to build a model of Barton street box for my self though that might be a while yet. It might also look at Peco ,Wills and Ratio for the box itself as they do all manner of things windows planking roof sheets ect. Which ever box you decide to model they all look good and will add to the layout. Jim
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Hi John / Jim,
Thanks for both of your latest post / input, as always lots of food for thought and information.
The Canterbury West box is certainly very much along the lines (* pardon the pun !), of the Model situation for the Loft, and the website links and video, provide lots of further detailed information too -

... John, this also shows the point rodding links from ground to the high level box itself. Your comments on possible brick structure / support at one end, as Hexham, might work well too, as have the retaining walls to the high level tracks, which could be used potentially - but will be based on rodding / cables for signals, as against trunking / ducts for coloured light cabling.
Thanks for the Plastistruct suggestion and information, do actually have some of this from Squires at a show many years ago; but went with the current kit structure (exc plate girder addition); very kindly sent by Sarah - but perhaps a further combination / refinement, is now and long since required 🙈🤣 !
Jim, thanks for the laser cut suppliers links, will take a look; also agree on your comments on the kit bashing / combo front potential too. Will look forward to your future high level box build (* that will tick a big box at home eh 😉). Also look forward to your next progress posting too.
In the short term, plan to trial fit the now built new upper section box superstructures onto the existing gantry (to be painted black and plate girders removed) - after which some further thinking time perhaps ...... comments will be welcomed too as always.
Will also need to look at and find source info / images for the mounting of the signal dolls on the structure too (or not perhaps ....) ?
Thanks again for now, Cheers Norm
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Your welcome I had a better look earlier and found another site which may also help is ScaleModel Scenery.co .uk. This company had a lot more available so also worth a look I have used some of their brick papers many years ago so they have been around a while HTH. Jim
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Hi again All,
Have just taken a few “test dry fit” pics of the new larger signal box superstructure with increased windows / glazing, now on both main elevations, on the existing support structure (* prior to any changes), which as above post, is by way of food for thought at the moment of course -
Building Tints and shades Stairs City Engineering

Building Stairs City Urban design Track

Naval architecture Building Vehicle Engineering City


...... early days but already feels like a much better fit - but as hoped raises lots more questions, apart from those already stated, inc;
  • fully glazed both main elevations ?
  • box angle on the gantry structure needs adjusting to tracks below.
  • access / staircases / Etc.
  • outside walkways and decking on structure !
  • others .......

Anyway, little steps at a time ..... for sure, Happy Modelling, Cheers Norm
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Hi All,
No further thoughts / progress on the HL Signal Box front, a bit of “thinking time space” being the plan ....
However, have looked at some possible Diesel motive power for the Steam Crane Train front, as the Steam Loco previous post / pics. This included a Class 35 Heymek As Pics below -

Train Vehicle Rolling stock Gas Wood

Rolling stock Wood Railway Flooring Gadget


.... whilst not for this use, also found a long forgotten Class 14 (* has not seen the light of day for !!!! Years !) -

Wheel Motor vehicle Vehicle Gas Rolling


As always any thoughts / comments very welcome; in the meantime Happy Modelling, Cheers Norm
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Hi Norm Just a thought the the Hexham and Barton boxes were to one side of their gantries where as the Canterbury box took up the whole gantry . I had a look at images of the Canterbury box and can't find any with signals mounted on it. I imagine they would be harder to see against the background of the box with the other two the signal boxes would have clear sky behind them. Of course I could be wrong and just not found any. I like your turntable it's a GWR brass kit can't remember the company name I thought about buying one but never made a brass kit before and they are quite expensive. I will give it ago sometime maybe start with something a little less expensive though. Jim
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Hi Jim,
Thanks for your latest post, and research, as always some interesting / grey matter scratch (challenging) points you raise.
On the High Level Signal Box, Signal dolls mountings, can only agree, part of the “issue” with the current version, as you have highlighted is the mounted signals / vision clash; this also relates to the previous comment from Graham on the “floating / unsupported” plate girders, carrying the current Signal dolls, on each side of the gantry. These obviously wrongly were added at a last ditch previously - to really find something to fix the Signal dolls too - in hindsight a No No 🙈🧐
However as part of this next development thinking of using some plastruct beams as below to replace the plate girders and this would also lower the Signal dolls mounted Height; below the windows;
Building Window Wood House Urban design

Window Building Wood Architecture Urban design


.... although key would be drivers viewing angle too of course !
Lots to think about as always, inc points from “dry fit” on previous post too.
* Edit - this was the original “smaller” profile Signal / Deck structure - 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔
Rectangle Gas Automotive exterior Bumper Metal


On the Turntable front, it was from Metalsmiths - will post a separate reply; as Greyvoices has a very nice more complete version of one, all of which were on previous posts.
Happy Modelling in the meantime, Cheers Norm
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Hi again Jim / All,
Just following up on the turntable front, this is the wonderful pic of Greyvoices MS one, posted a few years ago on his layout thread;
Watercraft Self-propelled artillery Combat vehicle Office equipment Wood


.... funnily enough we only chatted recently on this too, where as this needs far more work in the Loft .... just gathering dust right now ... ☂

Wood Building Window Composite material Hardwood


But working on the back drop building -

Building Window Wood Toy House

Rectangle Wood Beige Flooring Art


.... a wonderful building for sure, If was in need of serious TLC 🙈
Happy Modelling, Cheers for now Norm
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Hi All,
Well have continued with the high level signal box, having infilled the full floor deck area, to also include external walkways (handrails to which will be added eventually), removed the previously fitted external plate girders and changed these for the smaller section / profile plastruct lattice beams; together with painting all of the steelwork substructure black, as pics below -
Building Window Wood Rectangle House

Window Building Wood Rectangle Gas


..... the smaller profile lattice girders would now allow the signals to be mounted at a lower level, these would then finish at or below the main floor deck level, and be out of the line of sight from the signal box windows in the main. This would also allow white backing boards to be fitted behind the signal arms on the upper steelwork truss, to assist in improving there visibility from below.
Have also at the moment left some of the new / changed steelwork members slightly long, as the still white section of lattice truss, to possibly pick up stairs / landings - the configuration and location / layout of which is still to be determined.
The signal box card superstructure and roof is still loose, to provide internal access to model the inside of the box.
Still lots to do, but feels like some further progress at least ......
Happy modelling, Cheers for now, Norm
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Hi Norm As I said previously it is my intention to build a model of Barton st signal box so I was looking for some more details and photo's and came across a model rail forum post back in 2009 by Tony Daley . He was asking questions about this box after some conversations the thread ended with no further details and he has not posted since 2017. However he still has profile on hear and so I looked at his albums and there are several pictures of his layout with a model of the box. I must say it is an excellent portrayal . I hope I have not crossed any lines by posting this information. Jim
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Hi again All,
After a bit of assistance / input if possible please, on the “Staircase to Heaven Front” on the High Level Signal Box.
The following are a couple of mock up pics of a straight flight stair (* borrowed from one of the New Replacement Bridges as earlier posts) -



...... whist this staight flight configuration would seem to suit / fit with the available space on the layout - running potentially in either direction (East or West); probably West towards the Yard / Station, as against the East / Turntable -


..... however not sure this is the right solution, with maybe a more stacked / vertical series of stairs and landings, within the width of the end of the Signal Box and Steelwork support structure, may be a “better fit / solution” perhaps ..... ?
Does anyone have any information / links / knowledge of any such available kits or components please - the overall distance / rise from the ground to the Signal Box floor deck being 120mm.
Thanks as always, Happy Modelling, Cheers for now Norm
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Hi Norm Its looking good it might be an idea to have a landing half way up as back in the day heating was via a stove which needed coal . That is a long way up to carry stuff you could have the stairs return on themselves or just go straight on it depends how much room you have between the tracks and what ever is at the side. Usually the reason for the gantry box is a lack of space. HTH .Jim
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Hi Jim,
Thanks for your latest post / comments and thoughts.
Have now added the other two pics to the above post, which for some reason would not upload last night.
Totally agree on the straight flight being overly long, but it was one had to hand as a mock up / sample, by way of food for thought tbh. And very good point regarding the coal too as always.
Ideally as you have mentioned, a staircase with landings returning on itself, would be a preferable solution, located on the end of the box / structure. However, as can be seen in the final pic in the post above, it’s fairly tight for space here to the line below; will perhaps next try a mock up fit in the loft to see what can be accommodated and how it looks.
Also on your earlier post - had also seen Tony’s great model of the high level signal box on his layout thread, which is indeed an impressive version. Good luck with your one when you tackle it too. (* Don’t see any problem in terms of your post btw - all good / useful info).
In the meantime, Happy Modelling, Cheers Norm
Ps - hope your initial track laying is progressing well ?
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I like this very much - nice one Norman.
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Hi again All,
After a bit of assistance / input if possible please, on the “Staircase to Heaven Front” on the High Level Signal Box.
The following are a couple of mock up pics of a straight flight stair (* borrowed from one of the New Replacement Bridges as earlier posts) -


...... whist this staight flight configuration would seem to suit / fit with the available space on the layout - running potentially in either direction (East or West); probably West towards the Yard / Station, as against the East / Turntable -


..... however not sure this is the right solution, with maybe a more stacked / vertical series of stairs and landings, within the width of the end of the Signal Box and Steelwork support structure, may be a “better fit / solution” perhaps ..... ?
Does anyone have any information / links / knowledge of any such available kits or components please - the overall distance / rise from the ground to the Signal Box floor deck being 120mm.
Thanks as always, Happy Modelling, Cheers for now Norm
Hi Norm,
I'm no expert on signal boxes, particularly ones which live on "sky-hooks". That said, it does strike me that the designers would probably make use of available structures to build their ladder. To that end, it would seem that the two lattice legs at the left hand end would be a convenient place to attach reversing landing platforms. So placed, it would also occupy safe and already available space. The legs at the wall end, would be probably too narrow and close to the tracks, but that might just be the impression from the view angle of the picture.

As an afterthought, seeing that in my imagination, gives me the thought that the stair runs would also provide triangular sideways bracing for the legs, which would be another useful saving for the designers.

With my lack of knowledge of signal boxes, that could all be the stuff of imaginary fairy-tales

J
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My vote would be for a U shape. Something like this except the steps would only need to be one person + coal bucket wide.



David
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Nice to see some more input David's model albeit German is none the less typical all over Europe but landings can of course be straight on . Having in my job( now retired ) landings were welcome carrying stuff up several flights of stairs can make not just your legs but yours arms ache the choice carry more and make less trips or carry less and make more trips .:( Also back in the day people tended to have jobs for life and so a signal man could be in his sixties and still climbing those stairs with buckets and maybe oil for the lamps or even tools. Jim
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Hi Jim,
Thanks for your latest post, and research, as always some interesting / grey matter scratch (challenging) points you raise.
On the High Level Signal Box, Signal dolls mountings, can only agree, part of the “issue” with the current version, as you have highlighted is the mounted signals / vision clash; this also relates to the previous comment from Graham on the “floating / unsupported” plate girders, carrying the current Signal dolls, on each side of the gantry. These obviously wrongly were added at a last ditch previously - to really find something to fix the Signal dolls too - in hindsight a No No 🙈🧐
However as part of this next development thinking of using some plastruct beams as below to replace the plate girders and this would also lower the Signal dolls mounted Height; below the windows;
View attachment 23778
View attachment 23779

.... although key would be drivers viewing angle too of course !
Lots to think about as always, inc points from “dry fit” on previous post too.
* Edit - this was the original “smaller” profile Signal / Deck structure - 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔
View attachment 23784

On the Turntable front, it was from Metalsmiths - will post a separate reply; as Greyvoices has a very nice more complete version of one, all of which were on previous posts.
Happy Modelling in the meantime, Cheers Norm
this would be any easy item to weather, I could offer several different styles and from light to heavy if it appealed
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