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garage hobbit!!!
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
as the above title suggests, how long are the old style Pullmans?

I had a look on hornbys web but they dont give dimenstions anymore. I do have some and have 8 more on the way and am just trying to measure up my station to see if a 10 + loco will fit. My longest platform is 84'' (7')

My plan is to recreate the Thanet Belle or Bournemouth Belle using side over lays and a Spamcan (either Biggin Hill or Clovelly) both are early BR

Also, can the loco haul that kind of load round 2nd radii 180 degrees?

Your help as alays will be appriciated

Brian
 

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Chief mouser
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QUOTE (bro sewell @ 6 Jun 2008, 15:41) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>My plan is to recreate the Thanet Belle or Bournemouth Belle using side over lays and a Spamcan (either Biggin Hill or Clovelly) both are early BR

Both trains are an excellent choice, personally I would go for the Thanet Belle and use S21C170 Manston in full Southern livery with British Railways in full on the tender - well - I am just a little biased!! (see left)

Regards
 

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In depth idiot
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Brian,

They are full size, and with the original large Hornby couplers take up 11", so you are going to be a little shy on platform length... Before the advent of close coupling mechanisms and all that jazz, my approach on permanently coupled sets was to remove the couplers between the vehicles and use the rivet or screw hole that had attached the coupler for a staple made from florists wire to couple the vehicles. Cheap, and made to a length to permit a second radius curve will close up ten vehicles by about 5 inches compared to using the large tension locks.

As for the ability of one of the light pacific models to pull that train, depends on the wheelsets. If Hornby are fitting their current standard wheels all should be well. They used to be fitted with those 'anti-roll' square axled horrors, class A dustbin fodder. And if curves or gradients provoke too much wheelslip for your taste, it's a roomy enough loco body to put some more weight in.
 

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garage hobbit&#33;&#33;&#33;
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Thanks 34c

Looks like I am going to be about the loco & 2 out of the station, will have to revise my plans a little

All will be re-wheeled with lastest spec wheels for better running

New question then, if revised to 8 coach length, what formation did the Thanet Belle run as?

I will have 4 brakes & 8 parlours to convert with sides from Precision Lables (unless someone can suggest better) Did this train run with kitchen cars and bar cars? Any photos would be a great help, did either of my spams' pull it?

Okay thats actually 3 questions but am on a roll, and we seam to have a good number of Southern modellers here

Brian
 

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In depth idiot
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Pullman trains typically ran in formations of 'kitchen car plus parlour' pairs, with a brake either end, brake end outwards; I would reckon on three kitchen cars for an eight car formation. You'll need a Southern specialist to help with precise make up.
 

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QUOTE You'll need a Southern specialist to help with precise make up.

Or look out for a copy of a book on Pullmans at exhibitions, new or second hand. All the ones I have seen seem to concentrate on the Southern region which is not a great deal of help to me with my LNER leanings.

David
 

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garage hobbit&#33;&#33;&#33;
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
QUOTE (dwb @ 7 Jun 2008, 13:11) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Or look out for a copy of a book on Pullmans at exhibitions, new or second hand. All the ones I have seen seem to concentrate on the Southern region which is not a great deal of help to me with my LNER leanings.

David

Its a Southern set I am going to replecate, which books do you have David? Are any of them any use to me?

I have googled it and no luck with train make up, just it was 10 coaches, all first class, and as was said earlier a break at either end

May just end up using modellers licence and make it up, something like:

Brake First, Palour First, Kitchen,Paour First, Bar Car,Palour First,Kitchen, Break First

or swap the second kitchen for a Palour First

Kitchens will depend on if can get side over lays

Feed back welcome please

Brian
 

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QUOTE which books do you have David?

I don't have any because they concentrate on the Southern.....


Model Rail did a Pullman feature a couple of months ago. Opinion on it was mixed but it would give you something to go on.

David
 

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Chief mouser
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QUOTE (bro sewell @ 6 Jun 2008, 22:14) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>New question then, if revised to 8 coach length, what formation did the Thanet Belle run as?

Brian

Now you're asking - I'll try and have a look in the library - I seem to recall that I have an article or book on the subject somewhere.

Glad to see I have some influence.

Regards
 

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garage hobbit&#33;&#33;&#33;
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
QUOTE (dwb @ 8 Jun 2008, 15:29) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I don't have any because they concentrate on the Southern..... ;)Model Rail did a Pullman feature a couple of months ago. Opinion on it was mixed but it would give you something to go on.DavidGot that issue as was planning awhile back to do this project, it has given Andii a project but not alot of help to me as th formations listed were for the Bournemouth Belle once electrified and the Golden Arrow in BR mainly in diesel, and more named trains in your area using mk1 pullmans

Brian
 

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Hi Brian

I've found a couple of pics in 'British Pullman Trains' by Charles Fryer (Silver Link Publishing, 1999, ISBN 0 947971 78 5) in the chapter on Thanet and Kentish Belles (pp152-156). I don't have a scanner so am unable to post them.

Locos are: Southern 21C268 Kenley in 1948 with at least 10 cars - loco, brake, kitchen, parlour, parlour, kitchen, parlour ... into the distance;
Schools 30938 St Olave's (early BR crest) on Kentish Belle, no date, 7 or 8 cars - brake, kitchen, parlour, parlour ... into the distance;
34067 Tangmere (early BR crest) in 1955 with 7 or 8 cars; loco, brake, kitchen, parlour, kitchen... bridge in way...brake.

Another pic of The Thanet Belle is found in 'SR 150' by David St John Thomas & Patrick Whitehouse (David & Charles, 1988, ISBN 0 7153 9148 8) p72 with unnamed Southern loco 21C162 (later 17 Squadron) in 1948 with what looks like a 10 car train - loco, brake, kitchen, parlour, parlour, kitchen ...into the distance.

So, 3 Spamcans there, and looks like the later trains had 2 or 3 fewer coaches. No formation details for any of the trains other than the pix.

btw, David (dwb), Fryer's book has chapters on the Sheffield Pullman, Harrogate & Scottish Pullmans, Yorkshire Pullmans, GW Pullmans, as well as the later South Wales/Manchester Pullmans, so not (quite) all Southern.

Anyone know whether R W Kidner's 'Pullman Trains in Britain' is worthwhile?

mal
 

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QUOTE btw, David (dwb), Fryer's book has chapters on the Sheffield Pullman, Harrogate & Scottish Pullmans, Yorkshire Pullmans, GW Pullmans, as well as the later South Wales/Manchester Pullmans, so not (quite) all Southern.

Thanks for that info. I'll have to keep an eye out for it being republished or appearing in second hand bins.

David
 
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