[Brian Considine]

QUOTE (dwb @ 28 Aug 2007, 19:28) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I think that is unlikely. It will take longer than that just to deal with the line to Bristol never mind the rest of the west country and Wales. Are they even any plans to update the current HST fleet operating out of Paddington?

David

Agreed ! - technology will eventually clean up diesel so that pollution will be a thing of the past. Actually, I've just spent the day in central London & did not see one smokey (road transport) diesel, so that proves the point - if road transport can run clean diesels, then so can the railways - lets apply the same emission rules & watch the diesels clean up (after loads of bleating from the TOC's).

And in any case (at the moment anyway) running "clean" electrics on the railways only move the bulk of the pollution somewhere else !

 

[alastairq]

QUOTE if road transport can run clean diesels, then so can the railways

nothing to do then, with the age of the technology in use ?

 

[Guest]

QUOTE (John @ 28 Aug 2007, 17:30) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>It's just not an option to leave out the overhead when modelling the modern scene on the Continent, so why is is an issue for UK modellers?

Hi John

Its not so much the wires that are the problem as dead scale OLE is nigh on invisible in 4mm scale (the contact wire is 0.25mm) What gives away its presence is the movement of the pantograph. While I would support RTR OLE I would never buy it as (to myself at least) it would never be accurate enough. If it removes an appparent obsticle to RTR OLE stock then great but to do OLE properly you have to scratchbuild it all. I appreciate though that this is a bit daunting for a lot of people though and any system will be an improvement on what we have now - ie. nothing!

Cheers

Jim

More pics on my site for those interested.

 

[5696Arethusa]

QUOTE (jim s-w @ 28 Aug 2007, 21:14) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi Jim, not quite sure if this is what you were trying to illiustrate but the above picture "looks" as though something is missing in comparison to the other two.
The OHL looks great in the other pictures and agreed with nothing in the UK market anything would be an improvement.

 

[Guest]

QUOTE (5696Arethusa @ 28 Aug 2007, 22:08) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Hi Jim, not quite sure if this is what you were trying to illiustrate but the above picture "looks" as though something is missing in comparison to the other two.
The OHL looks great in the other pictures and agreed with nothing in the UK market anything would be an improvement.

Hi Andi

I hadn't really thought of it like that TBH. This is the only pic I have done of the portal - didn't really think about demonstrating the missing wires. As you have probably guessed I dont really subscribe to the 'no wires' theory as the pans seem to just float around. However I dont really like the overscale wires either as it looks like the pan is running on a piece of scaffold (or a handrail). But if it means decent loco's I would rather have either than nothing.

Cheers

Jim

 

[goedel]

QUOTE (jim s-w @ 28 Aug 2007, 22:18) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>However I dont really like the overscale wires either as it looks like the pan is running on a piece of scaffold (or a handrail). But if it means decent loco's I would rather have either than nothing.
Hullo there Jim,

Very nice pictures, I find that catenary looks 'thinner' if painted black which I have done with some N scale stuff where the overscale problem can be far worse as you can imagine...perhaps the real stuff is grey and not black but then compromise is necessary unless you have a pet spider to hand!

Goedel von Brum

(the City of Birmingham looks wizard...I'm tickled pink!!)

 

[dwb]

If anyone is unfamiliar with what UK pattern catenary posts look like, there's a picture here in the gallery which shows what a fantastic job Jim has done in modelling it.

David

 

[7113]

QUOTE (goedel @ 28 Aug 2007, 22:53) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I find that catenary looks 'thinner' if painted black

On St Laurent we have used Tamiya wehrmacht field grey - this gives a very good appearance.

Regards

 

[Gordon H]

QUOTE (dbclass50 @ 24 Aug 2007, 18:20) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I have yet to see an exhibition layout that has OHL equipment in the fiddle yards.
Carstairs (complete), Deepcar (partial), High Gill (complete, but no longer in existence) - to name but three!

QUOTE If NMRA et all insist what you are suggestion then that means only live steam & live diesel for other forms of motive power.
It would be an interesting challenge to the manufacturers if it ever happened!

 

[PaulRhB]

QUOTE (Gordon H @ 29 Aug 2007, 12:58) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Carstairs (complete), Deepcar (partial), High Gill (complete, but no longer in existence) - to name but three!
It would be an interesting challenge to the manufacturers if it ever happened!

The Swiss Transport Museum in Lucerne had a huge HO Swiss layout and that did have catenary in the hidden fiddle yards, it wasn't scale in the hidden bits though and was the inspiration for my Swiss HOm where I've used code 75 rail in the tunnel and to lead the pantographs onto the scale stuff on view.

 

[PaulRhB]

QUOTE (jim s-w @ 28 Aug 2007, 21:14) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Hi John

Its not so much the wires that are the problem as dead scale OLE is nigh on invisible in 4mm scale (the contact wire is 0.25mm) What gives away its presence is the movement of the pantograph.

Ah a possible solution! How about a loco with a small motorised cam that makes the pantograph move slightly to simulate scale wires!

Add this to digital control of the pantographs , like some LGB locos, so they are correct for direction of travel etc.

 

[Guest]

QUOTE (PaulRhB @ 2 Sep 2007, 19:44) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Ah a possible solution! How about a loco with a small motorised cam that makes the pantograph move slightly to simulate scale wires!

Add this to digital control of the pantographs , like some LGB locos, so they are correct for direction of travel etc.

Hi Paul

The pan only really moves as the wire height changes - such as under a bridge. The Contact wire can only change height by a factor of 1 in 5 times the linespeed but never steeper than 1 in 400 relative to the track. In normal use the registration arms move and not the pan head. The idea of a pan raising and lowering between masts is fictional brought about by the lack of proper tension in model OLE.

You could - possibly have a reed switch under the loco and magnets in the track to tell the loco its approaching a bridge and lower the pan - likewise raising it where you cross a level crossing.

Cheers

Jim

 

[Gordon H]

QUOTE (PaulRhB @ 2 Sep 2007, 19:37) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>The Swiss Transport Museum in Lucerne had a huge HO Swiss layout and that did have catenary in the hidden fiddle yards, it wasn't scale in the hidden bits though and was the inspiration for my Swiss HOm where I've used code 75 rail in the tunnel and to lead the pantographs onto the scale stuff on view.
All the layouts I mentioned use (or used) what we might call 'pragmatic wires' in the hidden and storage areas. This is usually a combination of welding wire, rail or whatever else suits the task (and can be soldered). On 'High Gill', upside down code 100 rail was used across non-scenic baseboard joints, with the rail mounted in metal fishplates so that it could be slid into and out of position for transport. Carstairs and Deepcar mostly depend on a slight overlap in their thick fiddle yard wires at the joints.

 

[Oakydoke]

QUOTE (Gordon H @ 3 Sep 2007, 12:59) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>All the layouts I mentioned use (or used) what we might call 'pragmatic wires' in the hidden and storage areas. This is usually a combination of welding wire, rail or whatever else suits the task (and can be soldered).
That's only if you want operating OHL rather than cosmetic.
There really isn't a need for actually passing current through the overhead unless it's a personal goal to achieve it. After all we're not filling our toys with diesel or putting real coal in our steamers (Large scale live steam excepted).

The unnecessary complication involved in making the OHLE live would put off not only the majority of modellers but almost certainly the RTR manufacturers.
Then there are a whole load of issues when it comes to DCC.
Keep it simple and it's more likely to happen.

If you want sparks, then Express Models do a sparking module that uses flashing LED's triggered by passing trains (Blue flashes too!). Useful for both OHLE and 3rd rail set-ups.

 

[Dennis David]

Almost all of the RTR Euro electric locomotives worth a damn support live OHL. Before DCC it was a way to run multiple trains with some getting their power from overhead.

 

[Gordon H]

QUOTE (Oakydoke @ 3 Sep 2007, 13:22) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>That's only if you want operating OHL rather than cosmetic.
I do. It is also my purpose to persuade others to do the same, but then I always enjoy a challenge!

QUOTE There really isn't a need for actually passing current through the overhead unless it's a personal goal to achieve it. After all we're not filling our toys with diesel or putting real coal in our steamers (Large scale live steam excepted).
It's not a matter of need - it's a matter of doing it properly. To go to all the efforts that some of us do to make the OHLE look right and work correctly, it seems like "spoiling the ship for a ha'porth of tar" not to take the final step. It really isn't that difficult, especially if you use more rough and ready materials where it doesn't matter so much in fiddle yards and the like.
Of course, some people do use live steam in 4mm scale too - but I doubt whether a working diesel has ever been done in such a small scale. Bob Symes did it years ago in Gauge 1, but you never know - someone might take up the challenge!

QUOTE The unnecessary complication involved in making the OHLE live would put off not only the majority of modellers but almost certainly the RTR manufacturers.
As far as I can remember, all the RTR systems I have known of have had the option to make the wires live. Not interested if it puts some modellers off - they can always take the easy option.

QUOTE Then there are a whole load of issues when it comes to DCC.
No more than doing the same with DC.

QUOTE Keep it simple and it's more likely to happen.
If one of the continental maunfacturers had introduced a BR range to complement their existing European ranges, we probably wouldn't be having this discussion. It would be taken for granted that the wires could be made live if desired.
QUOTE If you want sparks, then Express Models do a sparking module that uses flashing LED's triggered by passing trains (Blue flashes too!). Useful for both OHLE and 3rd rail set-ups.
Still a bit too artificial for my liking. Especially for 3rd rail where the accompanying shower of sparks is missing.

 

[Guest]

Hi All

Its nearly a year since I last built any OLE - time flies!

A new mast with Colin Craig's insulators - the difference these make is quite superb!

Cheers

Jim

 

[dwb]

I know I posted a link before, but this time I've just got to post the photo in the thread so we can admire his work.

David

 

[neil_s_wood]

Wow that's impressive!

 

[goedel]

Quite remarkable Jim!! Now reproduce it five hundred times for the rest of your layout...

Goedel