[Torrington]

Hi all
I have got back into model railways after 30 years and have brought peco ELECTROFROG point for my layout (as i was told i would get better running)
But i have come across on a number of web site saying that you have to reverse polarity on the points as you can get shorts across the point.
I have put all the power feeds at the toe of the points, do i need to do anything to them our can i run them as they are ?
But i did notice the other day one of my locos stoped on the frog of one of the points (the points are brand new)
On the paper you get from peco it does not say anything about this .
Any help here would be most appreciated.
DARREN

 

[34C]

You need a pair of insulating rail joiners on the two short rails leading from the crossing (or 'frog'), to prevent short circuits. The points are self switching as supplied, but most people when adding a motor use a switch on the motor to change the connection to the crossing, and often modify the points for yet greater reliability. You get much better running, but they are a bit more work than insulating frog. There are all sorts of 'how to' sites, here's a well known one http://www.brian-lambert.co.uk/Electrical.htm

 

[butler-henderson]

Basically just ensure that power is only applied to the two outer rails only and use plastic rail joiners to stop any power being directly applied to the rails leading to the frog.

 

[Graham Plowman]

QUOTE (Torrington @ 12 Jan 2009, 15:06) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Hi all
I have got back into model railways after 30 years and have brought peco ELECTROFROG point for my layout (as i was told i would get better running)
But i have come across on a number of web site saying that you have to reverse polarity on the points as you can get shorts across the point.
I have put all the power feeds at the toe of the points, do i need to do anything to them our can i run them as they are ?
But i did notice the other day one of my locos stoped on the frog of one of the points (the points are brand new)
On the paper you get from peco it does not say anything about this .
Any help here would be most appreciated.
DARREN

Darren,

This is how you need to wire electrofrog turnouts if you want best posisble results: http://www.mrol.com.au/livefrogwiring.aspx

Graham Plowman

 

[FUNGUS]

Sorry to hijack this thread but Ive also been told that electrofogs are better, in my case I will be running dcc (hornby elite) and was wondering if the same advise re: wiring aplies?
Steve

 

[RFS]

Same recommendation applies whichever DCC system you are using. The diagram shows Peco code 75 points which are the easiest to adapt, as they have already been prepared for this change. The only comment I would make on the diagram is that the blue and red feed wires to the polarity switch don't need to be physically connected to the rails at the heel of the point: all you need to do is connect them to the track bus which is a lot easier.

Peco code 100 also need modifying but you will need to provide the electrical isolation of the frog by cutting the rail, I believe.

 

[TonyDaly]

QUOTE (RFS @ 20 Jan 2009, 09:22) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Same recommendation applies whichever DCC system you are using. The diagram shows Peco code 75 points which are the easiest to adapt, as they have already been prepared for this change. The only comment I would make on the diagram is that the blue and red feed wires to the polarity switch don't need to be physically connected to the rails at the heel of the point: all you need to do is connect them to the track bus which is a lot easier.

Peco code 100 also need modifying but you will need to provide the electrical isolation of the frog by cutting the rail, I believe.

I have used Peco code 100 electrofrog points & I had to cut the rails as they don't come allready cut.I use a little hand held mini drill fitted with a cutting disk, Very neat & quick.

 

[Graham Plowman]

QUOTE (RFS @ 20 Jan 2009, 19:22) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>The only comment I would make on the diagram is that the blue and red feed wires to the polarity switch don't need to be physically connected to the rails at the heel of the point: all you need to do is connect them to the track bus which is a lot easier.

Look, that's pretty much correct. The diagram is really intended to show that your bus would be connected to the red and blue wires and these wires in turn, connect to the stock rails in order that you don't rely on fishplates to transfer power from adjacent rails. Perhaps I should update the diagram to reflect this.

QUOTE (RFS @ 20 Jan 2009, 19:22) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Peco code 100 also need modifying but you will need to provide the electrical isolation of the frog by cutting the rail, I believe.

You need to cut the closure rails in the same place as is provided on the code 75, so yes, you are correct.

Graham Plowman

 

[Kelly88]

QUOTE (wolverton bloomer @ 20 Jan 2009, 09:41) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Sorry to hijack this thread but Ive also been told that electrofogs are better, in my case I will be running dcc (hornby elite) and was wondering if the same advise re: wiring aplies?
Steve

There is no need to do this if you dont want
I have just put up a small timesaver to play with while my new layout is beeing constructed

this has ben made with hornby set track points and connected to a Hornby Elite controler
i used the small wire clips on the points as advised by hornby and have 1 feed in the center between 2 point toes
i can run an engine to any of the 5 sidings and run round the wagons no problem
i have used a class 2 / a bachman Fairburn / and a 0-6-0 shunter and have had no problems
the units can go anywere i tel them and as of yet have not stalled at any frogs
there are no isolating joiners used ( all metal) and have not had any shorts
i may be lucky but thats how it goes
on my new layout i will be using Peco point electro frog,,in the sinic area, but that is fo the apperance
the hornby track and points will be used of screen

try it and see

have fun
Mike

 

[Graham Plowman]

QUOTE (Mike88 @ 22 Jan 2009, 04:05) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>There is no need to do this if you dont want
I have just put up a small timesaver to play with while my new layout is beeing constructed

this has ben made with hornby set track points and connected to a Hornby Elite controler
i used the small wire clips on the points as advised by hornby and have 1 feed in the center between 2 point toes
i can run an engine to any of the 5 sidings and run round the wagons no problem
i have used a class 2 / a bachman Fairburn / and a 0-6-0 shunter and have had no problems
the units can go anywere i tel them and as of yet have not stalled at any frogs
there are no isolating joiners used ( all metal) and have not had any shorts
i may be lucky but thats how it goes
on my new layout i will be using Peco point electro frog,,in the sinic area, but that is fo the apperance
the hornby track and points will be used of screen

try it and see

have fun
Mike

Mike,

The reason your are not having any problems is because Hornby turnouts are deadfrog (crossing V is solid plastic), not live frog (solid metal).
You don't need to make the indicated adjustments to dead frog turnouts, but you do for live frogs if you want any kind of long term reliability.

Graham Plowman

 

[Kelly88]

sorry graham,, got a bit carried away there ( missed the point )
and sorry to Darren if I gave him the wrong impression

I have never used live frogs before so will have to watch this on the new layout ( bad habits

Mike

 

[bob hughes60]

DC only
Sorry if this goes off at abit of a tangent butI will be laying streamline 100 track on my new layout in the near future.
it is a continuous double track with 2 independent goods yards (to allow shunting whilst running on mainlines.
As it will be DC - I am using a lot of short wheelbase tank engines and some are old triang- I
had thought to switch to stream code 100 electrofrog to avoid stalling problems and ditching my insulfrog points.
So I need to use insulated joiners to the two short rails post frog but do I need to do anything else in terms of modifying the points
if I am only running DC ??
Would I need a switch wired in to reverse polarity?(recommendations?) as I intend to use peco solenoids.
Sorry if I appear dim !
I have looked at a number of websites but most go off into DCC and none say DC -all you need to do is....
(loystoys.com/peco/about-electrogfrog.html is about the clearest that I have found)
Advice from any passing source of wisdom gratefully received including pointers to good websites.
Bob Hughes

 

[34C]

Sound wiring practise on live crossing (electrofrog in Peco speak) points is exactly the same for DC as for DCC. What was known as 'polarity switching' of the live crossing was a feature of the first large club layout I ever saw, circa 1960, long before DCC was thought of; yet if a DCC feed was attached to one of the cab control inputs on this layout today (it still exists in use), it would work perfectly. I converted my own built for DC layout to DCC with no more trouble than this: undo two terminals on DC controller, reconnect to the DCC system output, job done.

The links above should all still be available. If you prefer hard copy and no 'intrusion' of DCC, there was a Peco Publication by CJ Freezer on 'wiring the layout' written at least a couple of decades ago, which lays out the principles extremely clearly. Peco may still publish it, and if not a search of Amazon or similar will almost certainly turn up a copy. Ran a quick search and http://www.amazon.co.uk/PSL-Book-Model-Rai...g/dp/1852601736

 

[bob hughes60]

Thanks for the reference sent for a copy.
Cheers
Bob Hughes

 

[PAPPA.B]

Hey Guys Just to recap code 75 does not need a break cut in as it already has been manufactured that way? Also latest code100 electrofrogs are the same now not needing cutting ?Heard this somewhere don't know if its true.
Cheers Jim

 

[Graham Plowman]

Jim,

You are correct that code 75 doesn't need cuts to be made in rails - you just need to remove the jumpers on the underside (see: http://www.mrol.com.au/livefrogwiring.aspx).
Code 75 turnouts have always been made this way.
I understand that code 100 live frog turnouts are now made the same way as well.

Graham Plowman

 

[PAPPA.B]

Thank Graham I probebly won't purchase anymore code 100 as i'm switching to code75
Cheers Jim

 

[Graham Plowman]

Jim,

QUOTE (PAPPA.B @ 30 Sep 2011, 03:49) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Thank Graham I probebly won't purchase anymore code 100 as i'm switching to code75
Cheers Jim

Switching from code 100 to 75 is a smart move. It looks better and runs better.

I use 75 on 'Ashprington Road'.

Graham Plowman