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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've just watched a Youtube clip of rewiring Peco Electro-Frog points by hard wiring the non-moving inner parts of the point to the outer rails and cutting the tiny wires linking the frog to the inner rails so that all the inside track of the point is powered without relying on the contact with the outer track via the movable blade.

Does not wiring the frog from the accessory contacts on the point motor achieve the same effect?

This from someone half convinced that electricity is a figment of someones imagination!!
 

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In depth idiot
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As supplied Peco 'Electrofrog' (= live crossing) points rely on the 'switch' (= 'closure') rail contacting the stock rail to supply power to the crossing. This is a simple arrangement, which works well enough for some to use it unchanged, but is liable to failure if the point is in very regular use long term, and especially if the traction and or stock is heavy.

The typical 'surgery' on Peco 'Electrofrog' (= live crossing) points is to fully isolate the crossing from all rail connections, and then supply the crossing from a switch, which alters the supply correctly to match the set route, that switch usually integrated with a point motor or some other mechanical actuator.

...Does not wiring the frog from the accessory contacts on the point motor achieve the same effect?...
Not quite. The switch rails are live to the crossing so if the mechanical movement of the switch blade is not in synch with the supply switch there's the possibility of a short circuit. Also the switch rail that is open can be shorted across to the adjacent stock rail by a metal wheel that is derailed or out of gauge.

...This from someone half convinced that electricity is a figment of someones imagination!!
It's best not to think about it. In common with all subatomic particles each electron can be anywhere in the universe at any time (uncertainty) and as for how they know that here they have to work in a process to cause cooling, there they operate in someone's imagination, and yonder they have to be diffracted as a wave even though they are discrete particles...
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
With you, almost. If you supply the frog via the accessory contacts on the point motor does that not supply current from the frog down to and including the moving blade of the point, in addition to it being in contact with the stock rail?

Why would the mechanical switch blade be out of synch with the supply switch?

I do understand the problems with out of gauge wheels.

I do not understand electricity, your description is mind-boggling and someone must have worked it all out originally!!
 

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C55
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It used to be that the Switch Blade could be out of sync with the Frog with solenoid points as the set up could be slightly mis-aligned, so the Blade could be behind or in front of the polarity change. It is less likely in more modern, none solenoid Motors. Another reason for binding the Switch blade to the Running rail, is that it avoids the possibility that a wheel could cause a short between the two, where the Switch is bound to the Frog group. {Back to back too short, thicker wheel rims} Just safer all round to avoid the possibility.
J
 

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Best thing for you right now is to ignore the fancy stuff and simply wire the electrofrog up the easy way, because the polarity changes as the track direction changes you feed the point from the nose and insulate the two switched directions and thus beyond this need to ensure dropper feeds to carry on, easy to do and works quite well, not tried any unifrogs yet but it'll be soon when I do, in the meantime I remain with Code 100 and indeed have some OO9 points on that layout also electrofrog, after a time you do need to clean the rail to switch blade contact to ensure it all works smoothly and for sure its better than insulfrogs.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
No, I can't remember one either but then I haven't modelled for many years. It has been mentioned on here as a possible problem. I'm going to try modified and unmodified points and see if there's any difference. Thanks for the info
 

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This is how to wire live frog turnouts:

Live Frog Wiring - Model Railways On-Line

The new Peco Unifrog attempts to make the process easier by being ready wired. The only difference over conventional live frog and dead frog turnouts is that switching the turnout blades doesn't isolate the non-set route ie both routes are allways live so you can't use turnouts to isolate sidings. Personally, I think isolating via turnouts is a bad practice anyway, so I don't think the uni-frog way of doing things is a problem. It has the benefit that changing turnouts on DCC doesn't turn sound decoders off!
 
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