I'm sorry I can't be more helpful but I have always had to drill holes in the Peco sleepers. Of course with a mini drill this only takes a couple of seconds each hole. Don't struggle with the pins as you are doing now because that way lies accidents and damage, either to the track or yourself. I have just tried a couple of pins doing as Peco advise and sure enough they do go through the sleeper but it requires a VERY firm grip on the pin and a not inconsiderable pressure. I can't see that youngsters would be able to cope at all.
Peco SL-14 Track Pins
G
I'm having problems getting these pins through the sleepers on Streamline (code 100) track.
The instuctions supplied with the pins advises to grip the pins with a pair of fine pliers near the point, and push through the sleeper, no need to drill a hole. This seems impossible. I've also tried tapping the pin with a small hammer, but the pin always bends.
Has anyone had similar experiences with SL-14 pins, or am I missing something? Any help would be much appreciated.
1 - 20 of 24 Posts
G
What are you putting the pins into? Is it MDF, Fibreboard or what?
![]()
This could be the reason you are having pins bend. I have found that as long as there is a hole there isn't really a problem getting the oins through the track.
My baseboard surface is Sundeala, pins don't even reach this and bend soon after entering the sleeper, following the instructions on the pin packet.
Far easier to drill a 1mm hole first as previously suggested
![]()
Far easier to drill a 1mm hole first as previously suggested
Sorry I missed the bit about drilling a hole. I was under the impression you were putting them through holes.
![]()
QUOTE (Howzatt @ 21 Jan 2007, 22:44) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
![]()
I'm having problems getting these pins through the sleepers on Streamline (code 100) track.
The instuctions supplied with the pins advises to grip the pins with a pair of fine pliers near the point, and push through the sleeper, no need to drill a hole. This seems impossible. I've also tried tapping the pin with a small hammer, but the pin always bends.
Has anyone had similar experiences with SL-14 pins, or am I missing something? Any help would be much appreciated.
Personally, I cannot think of anything which makes track in the scenic section of a layout look more unreallistic than track pins!
I glue track down, usually with EvoStick or Bostick. Once ballast is in place (usual PVA method), this holds the track even more firmly (apologies for grainy pictures - these were taken about 5 years ago) (all mainline curves are 5 foot radius, code 75 track):
http://www.brma.asn.au/Gallery/Plowmang/AshRoad7.jpg
http://www.brma.asn.au/Gallery/Plowmang/AshRoad12.jpg
http://www.brma.asn.au/Gallery/Plowmang/AshRoad13.jpg
http://www.brma.asn.au/Gallery/Plowmang/012.jpg
http://www.brma.asn.au/Gallery/Plowmang/007.jpg
The finished product (ballasted track):
http://www.brma.asn.au/Gallery/Plowmang/003.jpg
http://mrol.gppsoftware.com
I have used pins in my fiddle yard, always in the ends of sleepers. Never had a problem with Peco pins going through into cork. If they are put through the middles of sleepers, the sleepers tend to curl over time and gauge narrowing occurs.
I wouldn't touch Sundeala - the most unsuitable material for model railway baseboards ever invented. Only suitable for what it was invented for: picture boards.
Graham Plowman
I'm having problems getting these pins through the sleepers on Streamline (code 100) track.
The instuctions supplied with the pins advises to grip the pins with a pair of fine pliers near the point, and push through the sleeper, no need to drill a hole. This seems impossible. I've also tried tapping the pin with a small hammer, but the pin always bends.
Has anyone had similar experiences with SL-14 pins, or am I missing something? Any help would be much appreciated.
Personally, I cannot think of anything which makes track in the scenic section of a layout look more unreallistic than track pins!
I glue track down, usually with EvoStick or Bostick. Once ballast is in place (usual PVA method), this holds the track even more firmly (apologies for grainy pictures - these were taken about 5 years ago) (all mainline curves are 5 foot radius, code 75 track):
http://www.brma.asn.au/Gallery/Plowmang/AshRoad7.jpg
http://www.brma.asn.au/Gallery/Plowmang/AshRoad12.jpg
http://www.brma.asn.au/Gallery/Plowmang/AshRoad13.jpg
http://www.brma.asn.au/Gallery/Plowmang/012.jpg
http://www.brma.asn.au/Gallery/Plowmang/007.jpg
The finished product (ballasted track):
http://www.brma.asn.au/Gallery/Plowmang/003.jpg
http://mrol.gppsoftware.com
I have used pins in my fiddle yard, always in the ends of sleepers. Never had a problem with Peco pins going through into cork. If they are put through the middles of sleepers, the sleepers tend to curl over time and gauge narrowing occurs.
I wouldn't touch Sundeala - the most unsuitable material for model railway baseboards ever invented. Only suitable for what it was invented for: picture boards.
Graham Plowman
Well Graham, they do say that one man's meat is another man's poison. This is obviously true when you and Sundeala come together.
Personally, after building layouts for over 45 years, including private, club and exhibition layouts, I have recently started a new layout in a spare bedroom at home. Having in the past built layouts using a flush boarded door, Plywood, MDF and most other materials known to man, I have for the first time ever used Sundeala board.
I have to say that I have found it to be the best surface I've ever used. I wish that I had opened my eyes to it's advantages a long time ago and saved myself a lot of hassle.
Having said that, if you think differently so be it, just don't knock it in a post to a newcomer without giving your reasons. With a reasoned argument, an informed decision can be made by anyone reading your post, not a snap decision made on a dismissive statement.
At the end of the day, we all think differently and are never all going to agree on the best way to do anything,
PS I agree about the way track pins look, but for ease of track laying, I pin, ballast and then remove the pins before painting. Probably the best way for an inexperienced modeller to proceed.
![]()
Personally, after building layouts for over 45 years, including private, club and exhibition layouts, I have recently started a new layout in a spare bedroom at home. Having in the past built layouts using a flush boarded door, Plywood, MDF and most other materials known to man, I have for the first time ever used Sundeala board.
I have to say that I have found it to be the best surface I've ever used. I wish that I had opened my eyes to it's advantages a long time ago and saved myself a lot of hassle.
Having said that, if you think differently so be it, just don't knock it in a post to a newcomer without giving your reasons. With a reasoned argument, an informed decision can be made by anyone reading your post, not a snap decision made on a dismissive statement.
At the end of the day, we all think differently and are never all going to agree on the best way to do anything,
PS I agree about the way track pins look, but for ease of track laying, I pin, ballast and then remove the pins before painting. Probably the best way for an inexperienced modeller to proceed.
I had planned to remove all track pins after/during ballasting, but I believe that the track needs to be well secured to the baseboard for extensive soak testing (and playing!) before it is safe to ballast.
Thanks for everyone's interest, it is much appreciated.
QUOTE (Gwent rail @ 22 Jan 2007, 23:11) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Well Graham, they do say that one man's meat is another man's poison. This is obviously true when you and Sundeala come together.
Personally, after building layouts for over 45 years, including private, club and exhibition layouts, I have recently started a new layout in a spare bedroom at home. Having in the past built layouts using a flush boarded door, Plywood, MDF and most other materials known to man, I have for the first time ever used Sundeala board.
I have to say that I have found it to be the best surface I've ever used. I wish that I had opened my eyes to it's advantages a long time ago and saved myself a lot of hassle.
Having said that, if you think differently so be it, just don't knock it in a post to a newcomer without giving your reasons. With a reasoned argument, an informed decision can be made by anyone reading your post, not a snap decision made on a dismissive statement.
At the end of the day, we all think differently and are never all going to agree on the best way to do anything,
PS I agree about the way track pins look, but for ease of track laying, I pin, ballast and then remove the pins before painting. Probably the best way for an inexperienced modeller to proceed.
![]()
Hi Jeff,
My experience of Sundeala has been as a member of several clubs and being called in to assist several fellow modellers with board construction problems - to rescue them from Sundeala.
The problem with Sundeala is that it is highly absorbant to asmospheric moisture and any water based substances placed on it (eg paints, plasters, wallpaper paste etc). This causes it to suffer badly with warping. The most common problem seen by modellers is that it sinks in the middle and curls at the edges, creating 'humps' across board joins. It is virtually impossible to rescue a layout once it gets to this situation.
Some people say that bracing it more frequently than usual prevents the warping but this negates the cost point benefit on which the decision to use the product in the first place was made on and it often doesn't solve the problem either. I was a member of one club who braced Sundeala with 4x1 timber and this still wasn't enough.
Sundeala is designed for picture boards where its property of readily accepting pins is ideal.
It is not a suitable material for building model railway baseboards and unfortunately, a certain print magazine pushes the stuff as the 'holy grail' of baseboard materials.
Why shouldn't I knock it to beginners ? It is our responsibility to help and guide beginners so that they get the best advice so they can enjoy the hobby rather than fall into the same traps that others have fallen into before them. I think it is dishonest to sell a material which is not the right material for a job because beginners will become frustrated with it when they can't control the warping and probably dessert the hobby.
If you are happy with it and it works for you, then that is good, but I have seen too many layouts ruined by this stuff to accept that it is suitable for model railway baseboards.
In my opinion, the best materials for baseboard construction are 12mm ply with cork track bed. The latter readily accepts pins for those who want to go down that route. Cost wise, it adds up to the same as Sundeala with lots of bracing.
Graham Plowman
Personally, after building layouts for over 45 years, including private, club and exhibition layouts, I have recently started a new layout in a spare bedroom at home. Having in the past built layouts using a flush boarded door, Plywood, MDF and most other materials known to man, I have for the first time ever used Sundeala board.
I have to say that I have found it to be the best surface I've ever used. I wish that I had opened my eyes to it's advantages a long time ago and saved myself a lot of hassle.
Having said that, if you think differently so be it, just don't knock it in a post to a newcomer without giving your reasons. With a reasoned argument, an informed decision can be made by anyone reading your post, not a snap decision made on a dismissive statement.
At the end of the day, we all think differently and are never all going to agree on the best way to do anything,
PS I agree about the way track pins look, but for ease of track laying, I pin, ballast and then remove the pins before painting. Probably the best way for an inexperienced modeller to proceed.
Hi Jeff,
My experience of Sundeala has been as a member of several clubs and being called in to assist several fellow modellers with board construction problems - to rescue them from Sundeala.
The problem with Sundeala is that it is highly absorbant to asmospheric moisture and any water based substances placed on it (eg paints, plasters, wallpaper paste etc). This causes it to suffer badly with warping. The most common problem seen by modellers is that it sinks in the middle and curls at the edges, creating 'humps' across board joins. It is virtually impossible to rescue a layout once it gets to this situation.
Some people say that bracing it more frequently than usual prevents the warping but this negates the cost point benefit on which the decision to use the product in the first place was made on and it often doesn't solve the problem either. I was a member of one club who braced Sundeala with 4x1 timber and this still wasn't enough.
Sundeala is designed for picture boards where its property of readily accepting pins is ideal.
It is not a suitable material for building model railway baseboards and unfortunately, a certain print magazine pushes the stuff as the 'holy grail' of baseboard materials.
Why shouldn't I knock it to beginners ? It is our responsibility to help and guide beginners so that they get the best advice so they can enjoy the hobby rather than fall into the same traps that others have fallen into before them. I think it is dishonest to sell a material which is not the right material for a job because beginners will become frustrated with it when they can't control the warping and probably dessert the hobby.
If you are happy with it and it works for you, then that is good, but I have seen too many layouts ruined by this stuff to accept that it is suitable for model railway baseboards.
In my opinion, the best materials for baseboard construction are 12mm ply with cork track bed. The latter readily accepts pins for those who want to go down that route. Cost wise, it adds up to the same as Sundeala with lots of bracing.
Graham Plowman
Thanks for the reply Graham, you clarify a number of points with which I would not argue.
As with most things, a little knowledge is often dangerous. I too have seen other layouts where the use of Sundeala has caused a problem. I would say that these have been caused by ignoring one of three guidelines that are necessary to use the material with success.
1) If your layout is subject to frequent atmospheric changes, don't use it, the changes in humidity will cause it to distort.
2) Follow the instructions included with every pack of "Sundeala Hobbyboard" (as supplied by model railway outlets) and condition the surface before use.
3) Prime the surface of the board with a non-waterbased sealer or paint before using plaster or wallpaper paste on it.
In my case, my layout is a permanent one, in a spare bedroom, where the conditions do not vary significantly. I am also careful to prime any scenic areas, rather than building on top of the untreated board, thereby avoiding any possible absorption of water.
If my layout were intended for exhibition, or even to be housed in an outbuilding that is not kept at constant temperature, I would totally agree with your preferred option i.e. 12mm Ply.
As for the magazine mentioned, I does amaze me that they advocate the use of Sundeala without giving proper guidelines on it's use and even claim to use it themselves, without clearly giving preparation details.
If you and I are talking about the same people, they even sell a booklet on building baseboards without mentioning how to properly condition the surface.
Thanks for giving a clear reasoning behind your dislike of Sundeala, I hope that reading our posts will be of help to someone thinking of trying it for the first time.
![]()
As with most things, a little knowledge is often dangerous. I too have seen other layouts where the use of Sundeala has caused a problem. I would say that these have been caused by ignoring one of three guidelines that are necessary to use the material with success.
1) If your layout is subject to frequent atmospheric changes, don't use it, the changes in humidity will cause it to distort.
2) Follow the instructions included with every pack of "Sundeala Hobbyboard" (as supplied by model railway outlets) and condition the surface before use.
3) Prime the surface of the board with a non-waterbased sealer or paint before using plaster or wallpaper paste on it.
In my case, my layout is a permanent one, in a spare bedroom, where the conditions do not vary significantly. I am also careful to prime any scenic areas, rather than building on top of the untreated board, thereby avoiding any possible absorption of water.
If my layout were intended for exhibition, or even to be housed in an outbuilding that is not kept at constant temperature, I would totally agree with your preferred option i.e. 12mm Ply.
As for the magazine mentioned, I does amaze me that they advocate the use of Sundeala without giving proper guidelines on it's use and even claim to use it themselves, without clearly giving preparation details.
If you and I are talking about the same people, they even sell a booklet on building baseboards without mentioning how to properly condition the surface.
Thanks for giving a clear reasoning behind your dislike of Sundeala, I hope that reading our posts will be of help to someone thinking of trying it for the first time.
1 - 20 of 24 Posts
