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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am moving on on my new layout.

This comprises of some Peco and Hornby Track with rolling stock of some 20 years old though the track is more modern and the points are new.

The problem is that on the points the carriages jump the radius (wheels jump) on turning from straight to curve.

The Track bed is 90% level some slight depressions. But looking at eye level across the track you can see a slight depression on the line between the two points.

The straight line no problems but asking to curve from one line to the next the carriage bogies will jump the line.

I have put in approx centre of the point a screwdriver blade to lift the points at the curve part but does not work.

Is it the rolling stock is older than newer points or am I doing something wrong known by others he have laid track many times that points are a pain.
 

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Its often best to check the wheels first as its amazing the amount of "gunge" that builds up and can go hard and cause "bumping," that can derail wagons and coaches on points.Some of the older wagons and coaches wheels where plastic and have quite thick flanges which can contribute to de railing. If they are low friction bearings they can usually be interchanged with the modern metal wheels that can be obtained from Hornby or Bachmann very cheaply
Check the height of the frogs sometimes these are higher than the rails .If the frogs are not level with the track I have used a fine carborundum stone to get them level, this usually cures it.
Best of luck
 

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Dogsbody
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Despite what the manufacturers say, the older stock does not like code 100 track points and goodness knows what happens on the code 75 or 83 trackwork.

It seems that we need to use track and stock made more or less at the same time so that we can at least correct the problems that are (always) encountered. Old stock and new track doesn't seem to work. What about new stock on old track though - anybody know ?
 

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I'm with stmartins on this one I would bet my life it will be the deep flanges on the older stock that is derailing over the points etc.

Kind regards

Paul
 

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Yes, I agree it is usually the older wheels with bigger (deeper) flanges that ride up on the point frog and off the track.
Regards
David Y
 

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I have found that some old stock I have will not run on modern track because of the plastic flanges. Some Triang is particularly bad. The flanges hit the top of the sleepers.

Now if the point frogs are of plastic the wheels hit them on the turn & ride up on them making the problem even worse. Do you have the same problem with modern stock?

If modern stock is ok then the problem is the old wheel sets. If nothing will go through without coming off the track then the track is the problem.
 

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QUOTE (TonyDaly @ 6 Mar 2009, 20:41) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>. Do you have the same problem with modern stock?

I have to sat I don't have any problems with newer stock going over my Peco code 100 track.

Hope this helps to explain.

Kind regards

Paul
 

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I have been runnning old Tri-ang stock (about 40 years old) on horby points for the last 10 years and never had a major problem with them.
But the Tri-ang locomotives do overload the Horby controllers and they cut out, the gauge master ones are much better
 

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Code 100 rail....as used by the OP...has been an ''industry standard'' ever since I found out the truth about women!

Therefore, older trinby stock should have zero probs regarding flange depth.

The probs seem primarily centred on older bogie stock...am I right?

I suggest the OP [and anyone else who cares to follow?] takes a look at how the vehicle bogies [or trucks for our colonial colleagues] are affixed to the underframes?

In my jaundiced experience, I have found things such as rivets being used...and these can sometimes be somewhat over-tight, ie they allow swivel, but NOT a lot of ''rock'' in the bogie.

what I suggest is, to try and slacken off the truck [bogie] mounts to allow some [more?] vertical play....ie improve the ''3-point suspension'' necessary with any bogie stock.

[perhaps , with a rivet, inserting a screwdriver blade twixt truck bolster and underframe, levering gently to 'stretch' the rivet material slightly??]
 

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regarding bachyman coaches, to get them to negotiate tight corners needs some surgery....paring away with a sharp knife/chisel etc, the insides of the underframes where the wheels/flanges make contact on full bogie swing...more beneficial than paring away the wheel flanges, I assure you...
 

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My layout consists of some 340' of which at least half is old Hornby steel rail. This is well mixed in with new rail.

I have 21 old style points, and 10 new points.

My rolling stock is mixed 20 year old coaches, and new ones.

They now all run quite happily across all points and crossovers. 16 train units consisting of steam and diesel (Hornby, Bachmann, and Vi-Trains. There is also a Hornby Pendolino, and a new Hornby 153.
I am not saying I did not have problems, because I did.

The worst problem was the initial purchase of a blue 'Prince Palatine'. The engine fell off at about every point and crossover. I tried adjustments to the points and track to no avail. Then it crunched up its driving mechanism. As it was only a week old, it went back to the retailer for a new one, which arrived by return of post. This one performed perfectly in all respects, and after six months is still performing happily. So, in this case, it was the engine that was at fault.

The thing is that if you have a track misalignment, it is usually only one of the trains that finds it a problem.

Even cleaning the wheels of the engines and coaches can cause a problem. I had been running the 153 for a month without any problems, when I decided in the frosty weather to bring everything down from the loft to give it all a clean. 3 days of wheel and coach cleaning, then when it warmed up, the track was all thoroughly cleaned.

I had just put the third train back on the rails for running, when all the power shut down. I searched the track in case I had left a screwdriver on the track, (common problem)
When the brain engaged and I thought 'what was the last thing you did?. Checking the coach wheels, I found I had put one set in opposite to each other thus putting a lovely short on.
Then when I came to the 153, it fell off at a particular point, one of the old ones, where it had previously performed o.k.

When I have a problem like this, I very slowly run the engine, or coach, over the point to see what is causing the problem. It transpired that in my cleaning efforts, I had managed to push the switch blade on the curve part outwards, so that the rear set of wheels were dropping into the gap and thus derailing. A push back into place, and all is solved.

As the saying goes, there is always a reason why something does not work. It is the finding that can be frustrating, but very rewarding when it is.

AlanB
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I am grateful for the replies so far.

Tell me what are the diameter of the new rolling stock as against say 15 years ago?
 

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I have just realised that I changed all the wheels on my old stock to new metal wheels.

Hornby have a selection of different styles available.

AlanB
 

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I refer to Peco 00 gauge points - at times, I find a diesel locomotive will falter when crossing a point, requiring a gentle push to resume running. This fault applies, on the locomotive being slowly run across the point, increasing the power the locomotive clears the point without anyy hesitation.
Checking the point's bar, appears to be making good contact to the running rail - however it maybe possible that the locomotive wheels at some point slightly clears the bar away from the running rail, breaking contact when locomotive is run at a slow rate. Or is there another explaination for this fault?
 

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***The most common causes of this problem are

(1) A momentary short as a wheel hits the frog, and the thre of the wheel bridges both metal tips on an insulfrog point. This is a VERY good reason for using only a live frog (peco = electrofrog) .... or to put it another way... NOT using either Peco or Horny insulated frog points.

(2) a momentary short as the back of the wheel touches the point blade, which is at the opposite polarity to the stock rail.

(3) loco having less than good pickups (earlier hornby/lima diesels) simply getting no power at the dead spot in the unsulfrog point.

In all 3 cases if theloco runs faster on a DC layout, it will probably get through OK, but will stall at slow speed. On a DCC layout, both "shorting" problems are likely to trip the short circuit protection.

Richard
 

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Of course.....referring to another thread.....Peco points use nickel silver rail...and I assume, nickel silver contacts.......which can accrue oxidisation as per Richard's post on that thread.....which can someimes cause a circuit break at the point blade.

the slightest bit of dirt under the rail where the contact slides can create a temporary break....

in my view, using point blades as a contact is a good enough reason for wiring in a DPDT switch into the tiebar throw mechanism...postive contact and all that?
 
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