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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I received this with my email this morning: Anyone contemplating
Hornby DCC should carefully read this:

QUOTE I just want to bring your attention to a few of the problems we are
experiencing with the Hornby Select system and Hornby loco's fitted
with their decoders.

Firstly we have been notified of problems with running TCS decoder
fitted loco's on a Hornby Select system.
We know the Select will only work with addresses up to 59 but even
with lower numbers on the TCS decoders the Select unit will not
recognise them.

In addition, we are aware that the Hornby decoders are not
by the Gaugemaster system and this system will not read any CV info
from the Hornby decoders.

The only conclusion that we have been able to come to so far is that
the Hornby Select unit is not NMRA compatible and therefore will only
work with their own decoders.

Lastly, please be aware that the Hornby decoders that are due for
release soon have a maximum current load of 0.5 amps.
Hence we suggest people thoroughly check the current draw of their
locomotives before thinking of fitting one of these.
We know that many of the Bachmann range and certainly the Heljan
products will blow these decoders.
Upon release of the Elite Unit we will be asking Hornby for a complete
list of the current draw of all their locomotives so that we can make
sure we recommend the correct decoder for the correct locomotive.
Whether it will be forthcoming or not is another matter.

Please if anybody has any experience with the Select unit I would
welcome feedback and comments on the above.

Best Regards,
Adrian Hall
-----------------------------
THE UK Model Shops Directory
GOOGLING: 'Model Shops'
FIRST in 29 Million
 

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Hi , I wrote a email to Hornby nearly two weeks ago - via their website - asking for details confirming if their system was NMRA compatible ,as I had picked up this point in reading the adverts , it mentions "designed to be NMRA compatible " and not that it is , so I asked them to confirm this and I also asked which decoder would fit which of their locos . I have had no reply.........the more I look into DCC, the bigger can of worms it becomes , many of Bachmanns locos are the older split chassis type and not easy to adapt as Bachmann say on their website - hence them introducing a new chassis for LMS 4-6-0 next year . I`ll wait for the market to get with it and also produce ALL locos with decoders ready fitted - don`t wish to wreck my new pride and joy as I have read on forums of people doing just that .
 

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>"designed to be NMRA compatible "
To pluck a random quote from a film - "I have a bad feeling about this"

The hierarchy for interoperability is "Compliant" then "Compatible".

David
 

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I posted a comment some time ago about a discussion I had with Hornby at STEAM in Swindon.
All I could get out of them at this event was that a Hornby decoder could be fitted to any Hornby loco. In the light of the Adrian Hall email, what they didn't say could be more significant than what they did.

Now, more than ever, definitely going to wait and see what Bachmann come up with.
 

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QUOTE In the light of the Adrian Hall email, what they (Hornby) didn't say could be more significant than what they did.

I think what Adrian Hall hasn't said is more significant than what he has said.

Bachmann are/were as vague about their new product when questioned so its simply in the nature of marketing and sales people to not answer questions, especially when they don't know the answer!

If I was a Hornby sales person I would say that you could fit a Hornby decoder to any Hornby loco. Why would I say anything else!


Any feedback from Hornby customers should be passed on to Hornby directly. I'm not too sure that Adrian Hall will be able to help us as well as Hornby!

Happy modelling
Gary
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
QUOTE Hi , I wrote a email to Hornby nearly two weeks ago - via their website - asking for details confirming if their system was NMRA compatible ,as I had picked up this point in reading the adverts , it mentions "designed to be NMRA compatible " and not that it is , so I asked them to confirm this and I also asked which decoder would fit which of their locos . I have had no reply.........the more I look into DCC, the bigger can of worms it becomes , many of Bachmanns locos are the older split chassis type and not easy to adapt as Bachmann say on their website - hence them introducing a new chassis for LMS 4-6-0 next year . I`ll wait for the market to get with it and also produce ALL locos with decoders ready fitted - don`t wish to wreck my new pride and joy as I have read on forums of people doing just that .

Split frame chassis are quite easy to do given just a little bit of technique. Well hang on a bit As I'm seriously think about off loading all my 00 stock, all of it has decoders fitted and quite a few have sound.
The new game is On30
 

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QUOTE The show I attended yesterday a several of the dealers said they were taking up a Digitrax Agency. Sp some common sence is coming through at last.

And Digitrax will have to thank Hornby (and Bachmann) for this for giving DCC a wider audience in the UK. But of course they won't. I guess the dealers feel that some Hornby and Bachmann Digital customers may want to trade up eventually so it makes sense. If I was a Hornby dealer promoting digital I would want to offer a higher priced system that folk could trade up to also. And having a Digitrax agency might give that dealer more credibility in the local area if there are two dealers locally competing for Hornby Digital customers.

Its one thing offering a system buts its quite another selling it of course!


Digital is the future so good luck to any dealer offering a range of digital products.

Happy modelling
Gary
 

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QUOTE (the LMS man @ 19 Nov 2006, 09:05) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>the more I look into DCC, the bigger can of worms it becomes
I`ll wait for the market to get with it and also produce ALL locos with decoders ready fitted - don`t wish to wreck my new pride and joy as I have read on forums of people doing just that .

All these so called problems seem to stem from "entry level"/"budget" type systems. Talking to any serious DCC'er with a decent control unit & decoders will confirm this.

Again, the serious user does not want factory fitted decoders chosen by a bean counter. Please see other posts regarding ease of decoder fitting to locomotives such as Trix & Piko.

For some reason, yet again it's the UK market that's faffing around with el-cheapo kit - not the situation in mainland europe or the rest of the world. At the end of the day maybe the manufactures are only producing kit that the UK modeller is prepared to pay for !

Maybe thats one of the reasons that :
Price of 4-6-2 UK outline tender locomotive = approx' £100
Price of 4-6-2 european outline tender locomotive = approx' £200

Personally, I'd rather have a small fleet of Fleishmann/Roco/Trix etc locomotives than a large fleet of other stuff.
 

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QUOTE (neil_s_wood @ 19 Nov 2006, 06:56) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>This is an interesting development. There has been a bit of discussion about the merits of cheap decoders recently. Maybe this is why they are so cheap.
I thought that the previous discussion was about Hornby decoders not the Select Controller.

I'm new to all this (but I am a Systems Engineer and so I understand buses) so who is Adrian Hall? Is he a DCC specialist?
 

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>but I am a Systems Engineer and so I understand buses)
Then why don't you behave like an engineer, gather some evidence and present it objectively? At present you're coming across as "My Hornby, right or wrong".

David
 

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Adrian Hall (a good mate) runs UK model Shops Directory and is a long time Digitrax user. He's also an agent of TCS decoders and I think this is the reason he got involved with the Hornby "Select". There is a lot of DCC experience here Beer Hunter. We had a lengthy discussion about the Hornby "Select/Elite" a month or so ago the main reason for this was the unusual method of addressing. normally with the cheap sets it's two digit. The more expensive have four digit or two digit amongst their array of advantages.
While I'm not condemning the Hornby system, it is disappointing to hear that a system with so much potiential could be stifled even before it's general release. This could show a lack of understanding on the part of Hornby to the true potential of what their trying to market. But then we covered this subject last month.
 

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QUOTE For some reason, yet again it's the UK market that's faffing around with el-cheapo kit - not the situation in mainland europe or the rest of the world. At the end of the day maybe the manufactures are only producing kit that the UK modeller is prepared to pay for !

Maybe thats one of the reasons that :
Price of 4-6-2 UK outline tender locomotive = approx' £100
Price of 4-6-2 european outline tender locomotive = approx' £200

Personally, I'd rather have a small fleet of Fleishmann/Roco/Trix etc locomotives than a large fleet of other stuff.
Right on the button Brian.
Couldn't have put it better. If your not going to pay the money what do you expect? As an example of how easy it is to install a decoder in a Continental loco. I have done a short review which I will post on my blog for comparitive purposes.

QUOTE I thought that the previous discussion was about Hornby decoders not the Select Controller.
The problems seem to be with the Select and the deocders if you take the trouble to read the opening item.

QUOTE >but I am a Systems Engineer and so I understand buses)
Then why don't you behave like an engineer, gather some evidence and present it objectively? At present you're coming across as "My Hornby, right or wrong".
I would echo Davids statement. From your previous posts all you seem to know is Hornby and seem to be on the defensive. It might be worth you doing some research and finding out a bit more.
 

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Sorry Gary, but I don't agree with your insinuation that a Hornby employee should say that I could fit a Hornby decoder to any Hornby loco.
Unless it's true and every such decoder fitted will work without problems.

The other point to be made is that any such Hornby demonstrator will fully realize that a prospective customer will have locos of at least one other manufacturer in his stud. If said demonstrator knows that there could be a problem with ANY RTR loco and does not mention it, he is being dishonest and trying to sell a product that he knows to be unfit for purpose. If on the other hand he honestly does not know of the potential problem, then he should not be allowed by Hornby to give advice to the public attending the show.

If Hornby did not realize this potential problem existed, then they should immediately make it known and provide a fix.

So let's be informed properly, is there a potential problem? and if so what is going to be done about it?

I'm still (at least at this stage) glad I decided to wait and see how Bachmann compares.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Unless the Dynamis is a dramtic improvement of whats currently on offer you might be better advised to have a good look round. There's currently a Digitrax DB150 complete with throttle, decoders and tranformer on EBay-UK at £61.00 which is a steal. The transformer alone could set you back 60 quid or more.
 

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QUOTE (dwb @ 19 Nov 2006, 20:57) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>>but I am a Systems Engineer and so I understand buses)
Then why don't you behave like an engineer, gather some evidence and present it objectively? At present you're coming across as "My Hornby, right or wrong".

David
My applogies for coming across in that way, it is not meant.

However what I have tried to do is mainly ask questions and have only quoted my own experience.
 

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QUOTE (neil_s_wood @ 19 Nov 2006, 21:37) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>The problems seem to be with the Select and the deocders if you take the trouble to read the opening item.
My applogies and you are correct that only I know Horby from experience and am on a steep DCC learning curve.

However there is no need to be so rude!
 
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