[Makemineadouble]

I received this with my email this morning: Anyone contemplating
Hornby DCC should carefully read this:

QUOTE I just want to bring your attention to a few of the problems we are
experiencing with the Hornby Select system and Hornby loco's fitted
with their decoders.

Firstly we have been notified of problems with running TCS decoder
fitted loco's on a Hornby Select system.
We know the Select will only work with addresses up to 59 but even
with lower numbers on the TCS decoders the Select unit will not
recognise them.

In addition, we are aware that the Hornby decoders are not
by the Gaugemaster system and this system will not read any CV info
from the Hornby decoders.

The only conclusion that we have been able to come to so far is that
the Hornby Select unit is not NMRA compatible and therefore will only
work with their own decoders.

Lastly, please be aware that the Hornby decoders that are due for
release soon have a maximum current load of 0.5 amps.
Hence we suggest people thoroughly check the current draw of their
locomotives before thinking of fitting one of these.
We know that many of the Bachmann range and certainly the Heljan
products will blow these decoders.
Upon release of the Elite Unit we will be asking Hornby for a complete
list of the current draw of all their locomotives so that we can make
sure we recommend the correct decoder for the correct locomotive.
Whether it will be forthcoming or not is another matter.

Please if anybody has any experience with the Select unit I would
welcome feedback and comments on the above.

Best Regards,
Adrian Hall
-----------------------------
THE UK Model Shops Directory
GOOGLING: 'Model Shops'
FIRST in 29 Million

 

[Makemineadouble]

QUOTE Hi , I wrote a email to Hornby nearly two weeks ago - via their website - asking for details confirming if their system was NMRA compatible ,as I had picked up this point in reading the adverts , it mentions "designed to be NMRA compatible " and not that it is , so I asked them to confirm this and I also asked which decoder would fit which of their locos . I have had no reply.........the more I look into DCC, the bigger can of worms it becomes , many of Bachmanns locos are the older split chassis type and not easy to adapt as Bachmann say on their website - hence them introducing a new chassis for LMS 4-6-0 next year . I`ll wait for the market to get with it and also produce ALL locos with decoders ready fitted - don`t wish to wreck my new pride and joy as I have read on forums of people doing just that .

Split frame chassis are quite easy to do given just a little bit of technique. Well hang on a bit As I'm seriously think about off loading all my 00 stock, all of it has decoders fitted and quite a few have sound.
The new game is On30

 

[Makemineadouble]

The show I attended yesterday a several of the dealers said they were taking up a Digitrax Agency. So some common sence is coming through at last.

 

[Makemineadouble]

Adrian Hall (a good mate) runs UK model Shops Directory and is a long time Digitrax user. He's also an agent of TCS decoders and I think this is the reason he got involved with the Hornby "Select". There is a lot of DCC experience here Beer Hunter. We had a lengthy discussion about the Hornby "Select/Elite" a month or so ago the main reason for this was the unusual method of addressing. normally with the cheap sets it's two digit. The more expensive have four digit or two digit amongst their array of advantages.
While I'm not condemning the Hornby system, it is disappointing to hear that a system with so much potiential could be stifled even before it's general release. This could show a lack of understanding on the part of Hornby to the true potential of what their trying to market. But then we covered this subject last month.

 

[Makemineadouble]

Unless the Dynamis is a dramtic improvement of whats currently on offer you might be better advised to have a good look round. There's currently a Digitrax DB150 complete with throttle, decoders and tranformer on EBay-UK at £61.00 which is a steal. The transformer alone could set you back 60 quid or more.

 

[Makemineadouble]

QUOTE Remember that Hornby is a public company and therefore, to satisfy the marketplace it has to announce a couple of big developments each year. It has to be seen or perceived by investors at least to be leading the way. An entry level system now, a middle of the road system later and perhaps a top-spec system in a year or two. I'm sure they'll do it.

This has to seen as a great opportunity lost. Similar to the launch of live steam. It's a cul-de sack, possibly taken by marketing people rather than folks with sound knowledge. What ever, if the Select it's up to it, there will be great gaps in the market for established companies to exploit. These opportunities don't come often.

 

[Makemineadouble]

Reading this comment from Usenet you can perhaps see the comments of potential users who have been put-off by these developments.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, I was thinking about going DCC, but all this talk of low address
> and high address and will it or won't it is putting me off. I thought
> DCC was DCC was DCC. Isn't there supposed to be a standard for all this?

Yes, there is, the NMRA Standards and Recommended Practices for DCC.
Unfortunately, a number of manufacturers have decided they Know Better,
and refuse to play nice. Hornby is one of these; Marklin is another.
Note that both try to lock the buyer into their "systems", which is no
longer a good marketing strategy. You either produce stuff that will
play nice with other mfr's stuff, or you risk going under.

Actually, Hornby did go under, and so did Triang (who bought Hornby),
and so did Lionel, and more recently Marklin did too. Serve them right
IMO. The buyers of the Hornby marque seem poised to make the same
mistakes as the original. Dumb, if you ask me. (Don't mind me, I'm
feeling extra grumpy this morning.)

Stick with Lenz, Digitrax, NCE, Bachmann (limited, but
standards-compatible), MRC, and even Atlas.

 

[Makemineadouble]

QUOTE How about giving it a break guys as the system literally has just been introduced and Hornby will do the right thing in the event of any matters arrising.

We'll see.

 

[Makemineadouble]

In your one of your previous posts Gary you intimated that some forum members had been a bit vociferous with their comments about the Hornby system, and that we should trust Hornby. Why should anyone trust Hornby ?. From the evidence presented so far they simply have not got their DIY DCC to normal accepted NMRA standards. The fact that we've had no announcement from Margate on what the system can and cannot do simply encourages the type of speculation below. Folks embarking on the Select /Elite route of DIY DCC may very well find themselves investing in a Cul de sack, with even the loco's fitted with non standard decoders which will not take even modest amounts of peak amps.

Consider these comments from yesterdays postings on Usenet:

QUOTE Well, I was thinking about going DCC, but all this talk of low address and high address and will it or won't it is putting me off. I thought DCC was DCC was DCC. Isn't there supposed to be a standard for all this?
Yes, there is, the NMRA Standards and Recommended Practices for DCC. Unfortunately, a number of manufacturers have decided they Know Better, and refuse to play nice. Hornby is one of these; Marklin is another. Note that both try to lock the buyer into their "systems", which is no longer a good marketing strategy. You either produce stuff that will play nice with other mfr's stuff, or you risk going under.
Actually, Hornby did go under, and so did Triang (who bought Hornby), and so did Lionel, and more recently Marklin did too. Serve them right IMO. The buyers of the Hornby marque seem poised to make the same
> mistakes as the original. Dumb, if you ask me. (Don't mind me, I'm feeling extra grumpy this morning.)

Stick with Lenz, Digitrax, NCE, Bachmann (limited, but standards-compatible), MRC, and even Atlas.
The key underlying standard is the protocol and packet format that every decoder, command station etc must comply to. As far as I can see the Hornby decoder and command station meet these but are restricted in what you can do with them which is price performance trade off. So pick the system that meets yours. A system is only non-compliant if it won't work with these protocols OMHO.
----------------------------------
Since that time I have refrained from making any comment about the Hornby DIY DCC . My absence from this subject has not stopped others from taking up the sword. It seems that many folks are concerned about the potential damage the Hornby DIY DCC system could do to the hobby should it prove to be a Cul de Sack system.

 

[Makemineadouble]

Lets just take a few of the points made here.

QUOTE I want to play trains and have instant gratification not faff about with all the spagetti underneath.

If you took just a little time Gary with DCC you would realise that wiring with DCC is simplified, less complex, it's is just what you should be looking for if you want the instant gratification thing. Actually maybe if your looking for something like, that model railways could be a bad choice

.

The whole point of all these posts to alert potential users to hold on and wait. Don't buy on trust like you sugguest. See the specification, check any incompatibility, read the reviews, understand what your buying.

These are folks who have long memories and have only, or rather are maybe just forgetting Zero one. The damage will be caused by folks trusting a brand name buying themselves "possibly a non standard system" and becoming disillusioned with their Cul de Sack DIY system. I do sincerely hope the Hornby DCC system will be more standard that what we've heard, and compatible with some other popular makes. Yes we've read the flannel about it being for kids who want to run a few trains, but that's what the Select was for. I find disturbing that we now have a combination non standard plugs, under rated decoders, and suspect addressing. DCC has made a lot of ground in the UK in the last 12 months, we have momentum, what we don't need is an under specified system, working to it's own DIY protocol, confusing the market.

 

[Makemineadouble]

QUOTE The reason I am not answering every point is that those who respond all seem to be repeating the same arguments over and over and no matter what is said about budget systems you will not move out of this groove. You are simply not prepared to accept the big picture as it applies to the UK and continue to make the negative observations about budget systems.

Gary - I consider this discussion over "for now". We've scored our points and made our mark.

There have been no negative remarks about budget systems, the negative remarks have been confined to Hornby and DIY DCC as applied to the Select and the Elite which are non standard systems. If you and others don't consider this an issue then you'll buy the product. But don't then complain when the product dosn't perform like a proper DCC system. Bachmann to their credit have avoided this route, and probably in the longer term offer a much better budget system.

 

[Makemineadouble]

QUOTE i have read thro the DCC part on the hornby site, and reading that its all prity simple, the only problem i can see, is the compatability between control and decoder. and to get round this, i take it you stay with just the one make, be it Hornby or not. unsure.gif Im sure my loco`s are not DCC ready, so they will all need hard wiring in anyway, so i dont have to worrying about the connector plug.

Yes there are a lot of loco's out there without a DCC plug. Hard-wiring is frequently the only option, in some instances even if the loco has a plug there is insufficient space for a decoder. I've also come across some examples of faulty dcc plugs, the Heljan 47 used to be particularly bad, with shorts on the under side of the plug. There are examples with both Hornby and Bachmann where I've found faulty plugs. The worst offender is too much solder on the rear of the plug. Happily these problems seem to have been mainly resolved.

The most important thing is to check your installation in all situations , and if your hard wiring use shrink tube. I often stay with one type of decoder for a long period, this allows me to understand the characteristics of a decoder and the best way of setting it up.

With regard to the Hornby system, particularly the Elite, I would wait for a review, to reveal any problems before plunging in with a purchase. Potentially this is a very good "El Cheapo System", but there have been concerns about compatibility. These questions should be resolved within weeks once the first sets hit the market
so you best approach as always is just a little caution. Of course for just a little more cash you could purchase a decent DCC system and avoid these potential problems. Any of the specialist DCC companies have these:
Digitrax , NCE, Lenz , and even the Prodigy
At least then you would be buying a tried and tested system with robust support, and a good knowledge base.