[Mike Button]

Hello can you help please.

I've recently rebuilt my layout and it now includes a fiddle yard located below the running surface. To access this fiddle yard trains depart the scenic part of the layout and go down an incline which runs along two sides of my shed where the layout is based.
I have made this incline as shallow as possible, the first part drops 30mm in 1.2M, (1 in 40) the curve around the corner is on the flat and then it drops another 90mm in 2.4M (1 in 27). I believe Hornby recommend incline piers to be set at a gap of 22 sleepers, making the gradient 1 in 17 so I took this as my basis and went from there.
The layout is DCC powered by a Hornby Select fitted to a main bus which is connected to the layout wherever I want a power feed. The line to the fiddle yard has a power feed direct to it.
All track and nearly all rolling stock is Hornby.
Hopefully this sets the scene, but I can discribe more if it will help you to diagnose my problem.

The layour is designed so that I can run six coach rakes, (I wanted to get away from the 3 coach train set). My loco driven Princess can just about handle the gradient with this load behind, but my tender driven loco's, Patriot, 2P and 4F struggle to haul three coaches up the incline. The 2P and 4F have traction tyres fitted, the Patriot does not, to clarify it's a circa 1980's Hornby model.
Power is definately getting to the motor as the loco's experience wheel spin. Without a load to pull they manage the incline without a problem.
Can anyone suggest a remedy to the problem of wheel spin when pulling a load up an incline please.

 

[Mike Button]

Thanks for the advice, 5 coach trains could be a help but it's not just that, trying to create a realistic freight train is proving difficult as well due to traction effort.
I was having a look at different options last night and think the only solution is to extend the length of the incline, I should be able to do this by moving the fiddle yard to a different point under the layout and doubling the fiddle line back on it's self. This should give me 6 metres to drop the 120mm I need to get below the baseboards and still have room to get my hand in.
I haven't looked if the Hornby coaches I'm running are weighted, the wagons I know certainly are, if I remove the weights from them won't that make running them a problem, surely they are sold with weights in them for a reason?

 

[Mike Button]

Interesting idea, a decent pulling loco to bring rolling stock up from the fiddle yard then transfer to the mainline loco's before entering the scenic section, all i'd need is a couple of headshunts to swap the loco's over. If lengthening the incline doesn't work I might give it a try.
I would use 2nd radius curves on the turn, I'm aiming to keep as much of the fiddle yard as possible hidden under the scenic part. As my scenic boards are only 550mm wide this makes the use of larger curves difficult, but anythings possible.
The line to the fiddle yard is attached to the rear legs of the scenic boards so is fairly easy to adjust, hopefully this weekend I'll have chance to make some adjustments, although my new turntable's just been delivered so I want to get that set up as well.
Work really gets in the way of building and operating!

 

[Mike Button]

Thanks to all who offered advice, the problem is now sorted, I've lengthened the distance of the incline by actually putting the fiddle yard on the incline as well as the line leading to it, means rakes without a loco attached are free to move but I'll live with that. Thanks again Mike

 

[Mike Button]

QUOTE (alastairq @ 31 Jul 2007, 21:03) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>just a quickie......I suggest for those curves/corners...(are you using Hornby track?)......easing them into and out of the 2nd radius may also help.....perhaps starting and finishing with thos enew 4th radius curves?

Good thinking, I should have said how I've set up the first of the ninty degree curve, yes I am using Hornby set track. I had to clear the scenic baseboard corner and still have enough clearance to run a Princess hauled 12 wheel dining car around the corner. These are the largest loco and coach I have so if they can do it, anything can. Cutting off the corner of scenic baseboard helped a lot!
I came off the straight with a Half 2nd Rad curve to the right of straight, then a normal straight before reversing the curve with 2 double 2nd curves and a 2nd curve, then another straight and finally another reversal and another half second curve to get me back to the 90 degree turn. I've learnt it's best not to reverse a curve without at least a short straight in between the two curves.
I don't know how different this is to what other modellers do but it works for me.
I've spent more time today running trains from the fiddle to the mainline and it's not as smooth as I would like, nor is the hand room sufficient to switch some loco's from one end of a rake to the other. I can see more changes being made in the near future.
For me building my layout is a relaxation experience, part of that being the problem solving. I think I would get bored if I didn't have problems to deal with!!!!

 

[Mike Button]

QUOTE (ozwarrior @ 1 Aug 2007, 23:36) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I'd never thought of that! Far more positive than telling someone they're screwed!

Seriously I usually recommend 1:50 minimum but like most things all situations are unique and though not relevant to Mike's situation even consider two separate levels rather than use inclines.
How do you mean two seperate levels? How are they linked?